7 ms·

Something to note: whole and half steps are not the only available type of steps, you can also move quarter steps. It's not common in Western music (if present

by hasenj 16y ago

Something to note: whole and half steps are not the only available type of steps, you can also move quarter steps. It's not common in Western music (if present at all) but very common in Middle Eastern music. Maqam world (http://maqamworld.com http://maqamworld.com) provides a decent index of many Middle Eastern scales, some of them utilizing quarter tones. For instance: http://www.maqamworld.com/maqamat/rast.html http://www.maqamworld.com/maqamat/rast.html http://www.maqamworld.com/maqamat/bayati.html http://www.maqamworld.com/maqamat/bayati.html http://www.maqamworld.com/maqamat/sikah.html http://www.maqamworld.com/maqamat/sikah.html For those interested, each scale is accompanies by several audio samples to hear what it sounds like.

ThomPete 16y ago
There are many ways do divide an octave. Steve Vai created a scale called the Xavian scale wich is dividing the octave by 10. He used in on Deep Down Into The Pain http://www.guitarflame.com/2008/xavian-scale-steve-vais-own-10-unknown-notes-scale/ http://www.guitarflame.com/2008/xavian-scale-steve-vais-own-...
- hasenj 16y ago
  I'm thinking about a music application that lets you place tones in arbitrary locations on a continuous line (representing the tone space) and assign them keys on the keyboard.
  - ThomPete 16y ago
    Something close is http://www.morphwiz.com/ http://www.morphwiz.com/ and http://misadigital.com/index.php?target=home&lang=en http://misadigital.com/index.php?target=home&lang=en They are both interesting because they are using touchscreen meaning that they are fretless.
    - gtani 16y ago
      Cool. I've started fretless bass, and reading about accommodations you make for playing with e.g. vocalists who run flat more often than sharp, or upper register of piano that are sharp.
      - ThomPete 16y ago
        Remember to check out Jaco Pastorious then!
- bmurphy 16y ago
  That song is terrible (and I love Devin Townsend, the singer).
  - ThomPete 16y ago
    Of course it's terrible it's using the xavian scale which you are not used to.
    - te_chris 16y ago
      no, it's terrible because it sounds like a bad technical exercise (music graduate here)
      - ThomPete 16y ago
        So does Jazz to a virgin ear. That doesn't mean it is.
        AndyKelley 16y ago
        Jazz sounds awful. There's a reason pop music sticks to the four chords of victory - they sound great!
        te_chris 16y ago
        1. "Not sure if serious" 2. Jazz is barely a genre anymore there's so many different sub-genre's and movements within it that actually using the term how you did is disingenuous. 3. You did the same as above with about the same effect for "pop music". Seeing as you addressed harmony, you'll actually find that there are lots of common harmonic (chord) progressions that are shared between the two idioms. They reflect each other more than they are different to each other. If you really wanted to make the point you were trying to make I'd suggest looking for some form of obscure ethnic music (Pakistani throat singing or Indonesian Gamelan perhaps) that has not really had much chance to mix with western music and absorb its paradigms.
        16y ago
- mmaunder 16y ago
  I think a big part of music is familiarity which is why you see the overuse of the I, V, vi, IV progression. So to me Xavian sounds like chromatic played out of tune. Nice idea though.
  - eftpotrm 16y ago
    It's not just that; the musical intervals we tend to favour are based around natural resonances and constructive / destructive interference. Hence why a perfect fifth sounds good and a diminished fifth jars; the waveforms don't compliment each other. I'm willing to be persuaded and don't claim to have made a large study of this but I'm yet to hear a microtonal tuning that didn't just sound off. The sounds actively work against each other because the resonances just aren't there. (I'm aware in this that modern keyboards are even tempered and so we don't actually _quite_ have perfect intervals any more, but the differences at that level are far smaller.)
    - gbog 16y ago
      Don't be afraid to be right. I did study music theory and I can confirm that the intervals as we know them are just a way to modelize the natural physical relationships between the waves we hear. It is a way to remeber where to put your finger on a violin to make the two string sound good together in a given harmonic context. One can alway declare to prefer microtonal or whatever invention, but the level interference (or harmony) between pitched sounds can be determined rationaly. This, for once, is not placable under cultural relativism. That's why it is probable that quater tones in Indian or Iranian music are not really tones, and are more like little bends to the natural scale. (This fact do not please avant-gardists, because it means there is roughly nothing new to invent in this field, but reality is not supposed to always be pleasant, right?) By the way, I couldn't read the OP (blocked), sorry if my contrib is not related enough.
      - ThomPete 16y ago
        And I guess also why they don't really use chord progressions like we do in the west no?
- topynate 16y ago
  Hey, why stick to octaves? The Bohlen-Pierce scale divides the tritave in 13 (a tritave interval is a 3:1 pitch ratio). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60SYLdMYvcE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60SYLdMYvcE – check out the keyboards!

by hasenj 16y ago

ThomPete 16y ago

There are many ways do divide an octave. Steve Vai created a scale called the Xavian scale wich is dividing the octave by 10. He used in on Deep Down Into The Pain http://www.guitarflame.com/2008/xavian-scale-steve-vais-own-10-unknown-notes-scale/ http://www.guitarflame.com/2008/xavian-scale-steve-vais-own-...

hasenj 16y ago
I'm thinking about a music application that lets you place tones in arbitrary locations on a continuous line (representing the tone space) and assign them keys on the keyboard.
- ThomPete 16y ago
  Something close is http://www.morphwiz.com/ http://www.morphwiz.com/ and http://misadigital.com/index.php?target=home&lang=en http://misadigital.com/index.php?target=home&lang=en They are both interesting because they are using touchscreen meaning that they are fretless.
  - gtani 16y ago
    Cool. I've started fretless bass, and reading about accommodations you make for playing with e.g. vocalists who run flat more often than sharp, or upper register of piano that are sharp.
    - ThomPete 16y ago
      Remember to check out Jaco Pastorious then!
bmurphy 16y ago
That song is terrible (and I love Devin Townsend, the singer).
- ThomPete 16y ago
  Of course it's terrible it's using the xavian scale which you are not used to.
  - te_chris 16y ago
    no, it's terrible because it sounds like a bad technical exercise (music graduate here)
    - ThomPete 16y ago
      So does Jazz to a virgin ear. That doesn't mean it is.
      - AndyKelley 16y ago
        Jazz sounds awful. There's a reason pop music sticks to the four chords of victory - they sound great!
        te_chris 16y ago
        1. "Not sure if serious" 2. Jazz is barely a genre anymore there's so many different sub-genre's and movements within it that actually using the term how you did is disingenuous. 3. You did the same as above with about the same effect for "pop music". Seeing as you addressed harmony, you'll actually find that there are lots of common harmonic (chord) progressions that are shared between the two idioms. They reflect each other more than they are different to each other. If you really wanted to make the point you were trying to make I'd suggest looking for some form of obscure ethnic music (Pakistani throat singing or Indonesian Gamelan perhaps) that has not really had much chance to mix with western music and absorb its paradigms.
        16y ago
mmaunder 16y ago
I think a big part of music is familiarity which is why you see the overuse of the I, V, vi, IV progression. So to me Xavian sounds like chromatic played out of tune. Nice idea though.
- eftpotrm 16y ago
  It's not just that; the musical intervals we tend to favour are based around natural resonances and constructive / destructive interference. Hence why a perfect fifth sounds good and a diminished fifth jars; the waveforms don't compliment each other. I'm willing to be persuaded and don't claim to have made a large study of this but I'm yet to hear a microtonal tuning that didn't just sound off. The sounds actively work against each other because the resonances just aren't there. (I'm aware in this that modern keyboards are even tempered and so we don't actually _quite_ have perfect intervals any more, but the differences at that level are far smaller.)
  - gbog 16y ago
    Don't be afraid to be right. I did study music theory and I can confirm that the intervals as we know them are just a way to modelize the natural physical relationships between the waves we hear. It is a way to remeber where to put your finger on a violin to make the two string sound good together in a given harmonic context. One can alway declare to prefer microtonal or whatever invention, but the level interference (or harmony) between pitched sounds can be determined rationaly. This, for once, is not placable under cultural relativism. That's why it is probable that quater tones in Indian or Iranian music are not really tones, and are more like little bends to the natural scale. (This fact do not please avant-gardists, because it means there is roughly nothing new to invent in this field, but reality is not supposed to always be pleasant, right?) By the way, I couldn't read the OP (blocked), sorry if my contrib is not related enough.
    - ThomPete 16y ago
      And I guess also why they don't really use chord progressions like we do in the west no?
topynate 16y ago
Hey, why stick to octaves? The Bohlen-Pierce scale divides the tritave in 13 (a tritave interval is a 3:1 pitch ratio). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60SYLdMYvcE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60SYLdMYvcE – check out the keyboards!