6 ms·

I wasn't particularly aware of it, but it looks like the TRS-80 BASIC that introduced me to programming was also probably developed by Microsoft, and I'm pretty

I wasn't particularly aware of it, but it looks like the TRS-80 BASIC that introduced me to programming was also probably developed by Microsoft, and I'm pretty sure that AmigaBASIC was as well. I think I also used QuickBASIC on the Mac a little, but what I particularly remember was a demo for it that visually showed different sorting algorithms, that inspired me to do something similar in Pascal.

pan69 6y ago
Microsoft BASIC was all over the place in the late 70's and early 80's. Before MS-DOS, Microsoft was basically a programming languages company (and they still are today). They licensed their BASIC to many other companies, even Apple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_BASIC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_BASIC
- C1sc0cat 6y ago
  And I think most if not all MSBASIC ports for early PC's had a memory leak if you did not break out a FOR loop in the right way. I am a bit rusty but this sows the problem: 10 L = 4720 FOR I =1 TO 1000 STEP 2 30 PRINT I% 35 IF I = l GOTO 6999 40 NEXT 6999 STOP What you needed to do was set I to the end condition as part of the break out of the loop. There was also a lot of aggressive compression done to reduce program size PET in particular munged every thing up putting as many statements on one line as possible
  - ajinkyapatil 6y ago
    10 CLS 10 is always CLS
  - Starwatcher2001 6y ago
    There was a bug in the TRS-80 basic (which was indeed Microsoft). It had an "on x goto" command that allowed the program to move to different lines depending on the value of a variable: ON X GOTO 200,300,400,500 depending if x=1, x=2,x=3... They'd obviously used the same parser for the standard "If a=1 then goto 200" construct, which allowed an undocumented shortcut of "If a=1, 200" which a few people noticed and started using. However, a later model fixed this, which broke a number of programs.
    - C1sc0cat 6y ago
      ooh I never worked on TRS80's - so they had a version of the Arithmetic IF :-) I could have Told BillG that was bad idea back when I was 19
      - ddingus 6y ago
        x = x + (x < 5) :D No If needed. Atari Basic would allow crazy things like: 10 Goto ((x < 5)*100) + 50 Goes to either line 50 or 150, depending on the comparison result being 1, or 0) Or... Goto (100*x) Faster On goto with no checking, lol. Bill Gates was not involved with the original Atari Basic. That could be purchased on a cartridge for running MS Basic programs.
        int_19h 6y ago
        Did Atari BASIC use 1 for TRUE? Most BASICs used -1 (i.e. all bits 1), because this allowed the same operators to work for both bitwise and Boolean logic, in the absence of a dedicated Boolean data type.
        ddingus 6y ago
        https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Boolean%20Logic%20in%20BASIC https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Boolean%20Logic%20i... Yes, it used 0 and 1. And it did not contain bitwise ops. Those were quite the surprise! My first efforts were in Applesoft. Computers at school. Got an Atari machine and programmed the crap out of it. Wrote my own assembler, a few games, etc... Then I got an Apple and finding them in Applesoft was a nice surprise! Prior to that, I thought they were an assembly only thing. The trade off in the Atari basic was doing things mathematically was pretty easy and it generally, but not always, was faster. A few of us wrote fairly complex programs with basically no if statements. Kind of a fun way to think about things back then. I much prefer -1 and 0 and the bit ops, frankly. Internally, I remembered this kind of thing as "really fucking true" as in every bit better signal, or it's false!
        6y ago
- Theodores 6y ago
  In my opinion this was not good. Basic was considered harmful and was possibly the first computer thing to be considered harmful. Line numbers, REM statements, the GOTO statement and much else had to be unlearned by anyone moving on to a professional set of programming tools. At the time we felt enabled rather than held back. But many Microsoft products were like that. The OS on a BBC micro was far ahead of DOS. Then the whole concept of the personal computer took hold even though we had already seen networking. Then the browser wars. Now we learn that Linux is to be in Windows good and proper. So we are getting there in the end.
  - int_19h 6y ago
    At the time when BASIC only had line numbers and GOTO, it was comparable to many other popular languages out there. By 80s, when structured programming became the norm, BASIC became more structured as well, with loops and subprograms.
Keyframe 6y ago
Apple II and Commodore 64 as well. They were all over the place.
martyvis 6y ago
My introduction to computers was standing in front of a TRS-80 at a Tandy store (Australia's outlets for Radio Shack). I would visit sometimes after school and spend 15 minutes or so typing things in from the manual and adjusting them to see the effect. A few times when I went with my Dad I was hoping he would buy me one. Eventually I got the VZ200 from Dick Smith Electronics. I ended up studying electrical engineering, really liking the notion of using digital systems to control the real world, and am a network and security consultant for my day job.
- yitchelle 6y ago
  Oh wow, I never imagine seeing VZ200 ever mentioned in HN. One of the high school mates also had a VZ200. Unfortunately, the computer snobs at school treated him quite badly for having one. High school kids can be a*seholes! Hope you had fun with yours!

pan69 6y ago

Microsoft BASIC was all over the place in the late 70's and early 80's. Before MS-DOS, Microsoft was basically a programming languages company (and they still are today). They licensed their BASIC to many other companies, even Apple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_BASIC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_BASIC

C1sc0cat 6y ago
And I think most if not all MSBASIC ports for early PC's had a memory leak if you did not break out a FOR loop in the right way. I am a bit rusty but this sows the problem: 10 L = 4720 FOR I =1 TO 1000 STEP 2 30 PRINT I% 35 IF I = l GOTO 6999 40 NEXT 6999 STOP What you needed to do was set I to the end condition as part of the break out of the loop. There was also a lot of aggressive compression done to reduce program size PET in particular munged every thing up putting as many statements on one line as possible
- ajinkyapatil 6y ago
  10 CLS 10 is always CLS
- Starwatcher2001 6y ago
  There was a bug in the TRS-80 basic (which was indeed Microsoft). It had an "on x goto" command that allowed the program to move to different lines depending on the value of a variable: ON X GOTO 200,300,400,500 depending if x=1, x=2,x=3... They'd obviously used the same parser for the standard "If a=1 then goto 200" construct, which allowed an undocumented shortcut of "If a=1, 200" which a few people noticed and started using. However, a later model fixed this, which broke a number of programs.
  - C1sc0cat 6y ago
    ooh I never worked on TRS80's - so they had a version of the Arithmetic IF :-) I could have Told BillG that was bad idea back when I was 19
    - ddingus 6y ago
      x = x + (x < 5) :D No If needed. Atari Basic would allow crazy things like: 10 Goto ((x < 5)*100) + 50 Goes to either line 50 or 150, depending on the comparison result being 1, or 0) Or... Goto (100*x) Faster On goto with no checking, lol. Bill Gates was not involved with the original Atari Basic. That could be purchased on a cartridge for running MS Basic programs.
      - int_19h 6y ago
        Did Atari BASIC use 1 for TRUE? Most BASICs used -1 (i.e. all bits 1), because this allowed the same operators to work for both bitwise and Boolean logic, in the absence of a dedicated Boolean data type.
        ddingus 6y ago
        https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Boolean%20Logic%20in%20BASIC https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Boolean%20Logic%20i... Yes, it used 0 and 1. And it did not contain bitwise ops. Those were quite the surprise! My first efforts were in Applesoft. Computers at school. Got an Atari machine and programmed the crap out of it. Wrote my own assembler, a few games, etc... Then I got an Apple and finding them in Applesoft was a nice surprise! Prior to that, I thought they were an assembly only thing. The trade off in the Atari basic was doing things mathematically was pretty easy and it generally, but not always, was faster. A few of us wrote fairly complex programs with basically no if statements. Kind of a fun way to think about things back then. I much prefer -1 and 0 and the bit ops, frankly. Internally, I remembered this kind of thing as "really fucking true" as in every bit better signal, or it's false!
        6y ago
Theodores 6y ago
In my opinion this was not good. Basic was considered harmful and was possibly the first computer thing to be considered harmful. Line numbers, REM statements, the GOTO statement and much else had to be unlearned by anyone moving on to a professional set of programming tools. At the time we felt enabled rather than held back. But many Microsoft products were like that. The OS on a BBC micro was far ahead of DOS. Then the whole concept of the personal computer took hold even though we had already seen networking. Then the browser wars. Now we learn that Linux is to be in Windows good and proper. So we are getting there in the end.
- int_19h 6y ago
  At the time when BASIC only had line numbers and GOTO, it was comparable to many other popular languages out there. By 80s, when structured programming became the norm, BASIC became more structured as well, with loops and subprograms.

Keyframe 6y ago

Apple II and Commodore 64 as well. They were all over the place.

martyvis 6y ago

My introduction to computers was standing in front of a TRS-80 at a Tandy store (Australia's outlets for Radio Shack). I would visit sometimes after school and spend 15 minutes or so typing things in from the manual and adjusting them to see the effect. A few times when I went with my Dad I was hoping he would buy me one. Eventually I got the VZ200 from Dick Smith Electronics. I ended up studying electrical engineering, really liking the notion of using digital systems to control the real world, and am a network and security consultant for my day job.

yitchelle 6y ago
Oh wow, I never imagine seeing VZ200 ever mentioned in HN. One of the high school mates also had a VZ200. Unfortunately, the computer snobs at school treated him quite badly for having one. High school kids can be a*seholes! Hope you had fun with yours!