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A lot of comments are arguing about whether the software should have been modified to accept the HEIC format. Let's go with "no" for the sake of argument. They

A lot of comments are arguing about whether the software should have been modified to accept the HEIC format. Let's go with "no" for the sake of argument. They probably can't accept an mp3 of me singing my answers, either. But! If I upload an HEIC, an mp3, a keynote file, or anything else unacceptable... Why doesn't the site provide an immediate "File format not accepted, please upload .gif, .jpg, or .png" message? According to the article, the software would actually just hang. I think there's room to argue about whether they need to support the default format of an extremely significant platform for students. I think there's room to argue whether they should know enough about INPUT tags to let the browser help with this. But while we're arguing about those questions, can't we all agree that simply hanging without providing a useful error message, and without giving the student an opportunity to re-upload their image... Is unacceptably poor software design for an institution that holds people's future in their hands? I don't know about you, but if I were an American college student, I'd now be wondering what else they have kind of slapped together without thinking through graceful error handling?

treesprite82 6y ago
It does have pretty much exactly that message. The corruption problems came from students seeing that only PNGs/JPGs were allowed, then trying to "convert" the file just by renaming it. What they're doing is the same as 99% of other sites that expect images. But it's probably fair to expect it to be even more streamlined (i.e: clear conversion instructions) given the circumstances of a time-limited exam.
- Polylactic_acid 6y ago
  Most other sites would accept the upload, try to parse it and then return an error message. Its always the sites fault if it just gets stuck
  - httpsterio 6y ago
    Eh that's not often a good idea. The service should only look at the file header for the mime type and decide based on that if it should even begin to upload. Mime types can be spoofed and if you read the data blob's mime from its' type, then just an extension rename will fool it. But if you look at the magic numbers you're saving your server's resources and the uploader's time as it doesn't even try to move the file if the mime is not acceptable. No reason not to do it on the client-side first.
- LeifCarrotson 6y ago
  No, what 99% of sites are doing is <input type="file" accept="image/png, image/jpg, image/jpeg" /> If you do that, Safari will convert the HEIC image to a JPEG automatically when you try to upload it. What they did instead was to poorly reinvent the accept header in Javascript as follows: <input type="file" ... onChange={async e => { const split = file.name.split('.') const fileType = split[split.length-1].toLowerCase() const isAllowedExtension = extensions.includes(`.${fileType}`) }} /> (per https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23261598 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23261598).
  - zaroth 6y ago
    > If you do that, Safari will convert the HEIC image to a JPEG automatically when you try to upload it. That’s quite impressive actually and much more than I would expect from a browser’s <input type=“file”> control.
    - smt88 6y ago
      It's also not what a browser should do. JPEG conversions will vary in quality and size. On some sites (e.g. a CMS), quality can be sacrified to stay within file size limits. On other sites, like photo printing services, quality is much more important. These may be unusual cases, but silent browser assumptions are still an overstep.
      - zaroth 6y ago
        There's nothing stopping the user from doing a conversion themselves if they want to (and know how, which is asking a lot). The server is saying it can't read the other file type, so the alternative is to fail.
        Thorrez 6y ago
        There's a medium option: have an alert popup saying Convert the image to a format the site accepts (jpg)? [ ] Don't show this message again [OK] [Cancel]
- tomtomtom1 6y ago
  I don't understand why no one is blaming the education system? How is it possible that students that are being considered for "advanced placement" are not familiar with file formats? how horrible and backward your education system must be? This belongs to basic literacy in the modern world. Note we're not speaking about old people who were exposed to files for the first time while they had to balance a family life and other responsibilities. We're speaking about people that were forced to spend more than half of their lives learning !!!
  - smileysteve 6y ago
    Because in a world where apps do everything for you and 80% of your use is on a phone and the remaining 20% is either for a once a year use case, you don't need to worry about image formats. Even as a software engineer, I haven't used a desktop or windows in 5 years. I haven't used TheGimp (or any other non web/app image manipulation software) in 3 years.
    - tomtomtom1 6y ago
      that's interesting, so you use an iPad for your day to day programming? from my experience converting ppt/word to pdf is a common enough use case that I would've assumed the majority of non-tech people run into it. Latex is also a common case where you run into file extensions. note I'm not expecting them to understand the difference between extensions, just what they mean and how to google how to convert between them.
  - ficklepickle 6y ago
    They don't learn any critical thinking skills. Memorization != learning.
- shrimpx 6y ago
  File extensions have terrible usability. People changing the extension expecting something to be fixed is a classic misunderstanding. Many people do this every day, decades into personal computing.
- tripzilch 6y ago
  > The corruption problems came from students seeing that only PNGs/JPGs were allowed, then trying to "convert" the file just by renaming it. I mean ... isn't that kind of a classic trick when handing in homework you didn't make? Just rename some file to .doc and claim it got corrupted?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
consonaut 6y ago
else if (!isAllowedExtension) error = { title: 'This file type is not acceptable.', details: 'Please check the requirements, save your file in one of the accepted formats, and resubmit.' } Or, maybe theverge is just lying or relying on the misconception. If you think renaming your file is the same as converting your file, maybe you are misplaced in the advanced placement program...
mnky9800n 6y ago
Just think, with this level of incompetence here, how much are these tests actually worth?
0d9eooo 6y ago
It should go a bit further than what you're suggesting even. Any half-serious upload of a document or image now, less high stakes than a CB test, generally displays the file you upload for you to verify. Ie, "here's what we have from what you uploaded. Is this ok?" The college board should have had a list of accepted formats, should have included instructions that they put in the tweet in the upload UI, and should have had an uploaded document verification process. This is solely the responsibility of the CB, and is deceitful at some level, by leading students to believe they were complying when they were not.

treesprite82 6y ago

It does have pretty much exactly that message. The corruption problems came from students seeing that only PNGs/JPGs were allowed, then trying to "convert" the file just by renaming it. What they're doing is the same as 99% of other sites that expect images. But it's probably fair to expect it to be even more streamlined (i.e: clear conversion instructions) given the circumstances of a time-limited exam.

Polylactic_acid 6y ago
Most other sites would accept the upload, try to parse it and then return an error message. Its always the sites fault if it just gets stuck
- httpsterio 6y ago
  Eh that's not often a good idea. The service should only look at the file header for the mime type and decide based on that if it should even begin to upload. Mime types can be spoofed and if you read the data blob's mime from its' type, then just an extension rename will fool it. But if you look at the magic numbers you're saving your server's resources and the uploader's time as it doesn't even try to move the file if the mime is not acceptable. No reason not to do it on the client-side first.
LeifCarrotson 6y ago
No, what 99% of sites are doing is <input type="file" accept="image/png, image/jpg, image/jpeg" /> If you do that, Safari will convert the HEIC image to a JPEG automatically when you try to upload it. What they did instead was to poorly reinvent the accept header in Javascript as follows: <input type="file" ... onChange={async e => { const split = file.name.split('.') const fileType = split[split.length-1].toLowerCase() const isAllowedExtension = extensions.includes(`.${fileType}`) }} /> (per https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23261598 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23261598).
- zaroth 6y ago
  > If you do that, Safari will convert the HEIC image to a JPEG automatically when you try to upload it. That’s quite impressive actually and much more than I would expect from a browser’s <input type=“file”> control.
  - smt88 6y ago
    It's also not what a browser should do. JPEG conversions will vary in quality and size. On some sites (e.g. a CMS), quality can be sacrified to stay within file size limits. On other sites, like photo printing services, quality is much more important. These may be unusual cases, but silent browser assumptions are still an overstep.
    - zaroth 6y ago
      There's nothing stopping the user from doing a conversion themselves if they want to (and know how, which is asking a lot). The server is saying it can't read the other file type, so the alternative is to fail.
      - Thorrez 6y ago
        There's a medium option: have an alert popup saying Convert the image to a format the site accepts (jpg)? [ ] Don't show this message again [OK] [Cancel]
tomtomtom1 6y ago
I don't understand why no one is blaming the education system? How is it possible that students that are being considered for "advanced placement" are not familiar with file formats? how horrible and backward your education system must be? This belongs to basic literacy in the modern world. Note we're not speaking about old people who were exposed to files for the first time while they had to balance a family life and other responsibilities. We're speaking about people that were forced to spend more than half of their lives learning !!!
- smileysteve 6y ago
  Because in a world where apps do everything for you and 80% of your use is on a phone and the remaining 20% is either for a once a year use case, you don't need to worry about image formats. Even as a software engineer, I haven't used a desktop or windows in 5 years. I haven't used TheGimp (or any other non web/app image manipulation software) in 3 years.
  - tomtomtom1 6y ago
    that's interesting, so you use an iPad for your day to day programming? from my experience converting ppt/word to pdf is a common enough use case that I would've assumed the majority of non-tech people run into it. Latex is also a common case where you run into file extensions. note I'm not expecting them to understand the difference between extensions, just what they mean and how to google how to convert between them.
- ficklepickle 6y ago
  They don't learn any critical thinking skills. Memorization != learning.
shrimpx 6y ago
File extensions have terrible usability. People changing the extension expecting something to be fixed is a classic misunderstanding. Many people do this every day, decades into personal computing.
tripzilch 6y ago
> The corruption problems came from students seeing that only PNGs/JPGs were allowed, then trying to "convert" the file just by renaming it. I mean ... isn't that kind of a classic trick when handing in homework you didn't make? Just rename some file to .doc and claim it got corrupted?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

consonaut 6y ago

else if (!isAllowedExtension) error = { title: 'This file type is not acceptable.', details: 'Please check the requirements, save your file in one of the accepted formats, and resubmit.' } Or, maybe theverge is just lying or relying on the misconception. If you think renaming your file is the same as converting your file, maybe you are misplaced in the advanced placement program...

mnky9800n 6y ago

Just think, with this level of incompetence here, how much are these tests actually worth?

0d9eooo 6y ago

It should go a bit further than what you're suggesting even. Any half-serious upload of a document or image now, less high stakes than a CB test, generally displays the file you upload for you to verify. Ie, "here's what we have from what you uploaded. Is this ok?" The college board should have had a list of accepted formats, should have included instructions that they put in the tweet in the upload UI, and should have had an uploaded document verification process. This is solely the responsibility of the CB, and is deceitful at some level, by leading students to believe they were complying when they were not.