4 ms·

European entrance exams, including Finland's, are far, far worse than the SAT. They are much more serious and shape one's life far more and enforce systemic bia

European entrance exams, including Finland's, are far, far worse than the SAT. They are much more serious and shape one's life far more and enforce systemic bias to much higher extreme.

Gibbon1 6y ago
I don't have direct experience but I think the whole system in Europe is designed to irrevocably pigeon hole students very early in the game. If I remember California State Colleges have a bunch of placement tests to gauge what level of classes to put beginning students in. I think I'd be happier with a system that throws a net wide and than deals with the result on an as needed basis. Than a hyper meritocratic system that excludes large segments of society.
- BurningFrog 6y ago
  > the whole system in Europe Pet peeve: There is no European system. At least every country has their own unique system.
  - Gibbon1 6y ago
    So whats your point here?
    - njonesuk 6y ago
      That your statement about "the whole European system" is factually incorrect, because every single country takes their own approach, and there are huge variations between them. Trying to tar the whole of Europe with one brush would be like Europeans conflating the US education system with Paraguay and Ecuador because it's the "whole American system".
      - Gibbon1 6y ago
        So whats your point here?
Al-Khwarizmi 6y ago
Can't speak for all European countries as Europe is very diverse, but in Spain it's perfectly possible (and lots of people do it every year) to get top marks in the "selectivity" (entrance) exam after going to free public elementary and high schools. My partner grew up in a dairy farm, her parents have no degrees, she went to a small school in her small town in the middle of nothing, and she got into a medicine degree, which is one of the degrees with highest grade threshold. And it's not a unique story, it's quite common. So I don't think there is that much systemic bias. Especially if you also factor in the fact that tuition is cheap, or even free if your income is not high, so student debt isn't a thing either.
- dataduck 6y ago
  My understanding is that this is also true of the SAT, apart perhaps from the cost of tuition.

European entrance exams, including Finland's, are far, far worse than the SAT. They are much more serious and shape one's life far more and enforce systemic bias to much higher extreme.

Gibbon1 6y ago

I don't have direct experience but I think the whole system in Europe is designed to irrevocably pigeon hole students very early in the game. If I remember California State Colleges have a bunch of placement tests to gauge what level of classes to put beginning students in. I think I'd be happier with a system that throws a net wide and than deals with the result on an as needed basis. Than a hyper meritocratic system that excludes large segments of society.

BurningFrog 6y ago
> the whole system in Europe Pet peeve: There is no European system. At least every country has their own unique system.
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  So whats your point here?
  - njonesuk 6y ago
    That your statement about "the whole European system" is factually incorrect, because every single country takes their own approach, and there are huge variations between them. Trying to tar the whole of Europe with one brush would be like Europeans conflating the US education system with Paraguay and Ecuador because it's the "whole American system".
    - Gibbon1 6y ago
      So whats your point here?

Al-Khwarizmi 6y ago

Can't speak for all European countries as Europe is very diverse, but in Spain it's perfectly possible (and lots of people do it every year) to get top marks in the "selectivity" (entrance) exam after going to free public elementary and high schools. My partner grew up in a dairy farm, her parents have no degrees, she went to a small school in her small town in the middle of nothing, and she got into a medicine degree, which is one of the degrees with highest grade threshold. And it's not a unique story, it's quite common. So I don't think there is that much systemic bias. Especially if you also factor in the fact that tuition is cheap, or even free if your income is not high, so student debt isn't a thing either.

dataduck 6y ago
My understanding is that this is also true of the SAT, apart perhaps from the cost of tuition.