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> esoteric technical requirements Knowing a file type is an "esoteric technical requirement" ? Yes, this comment is for real. I'm the head of IT for a univers

> esoteric technical requirements Knowing a file type is an "esoteric technical requirement" ? Yes, this comment is for real. I'm the head of IT for a university and we do online applications. We actually accept everything within a given size requirement (which people are unable to respect). I have a bunch of scripts that run over all applications in the end to put them in the right formats, to do OCR for the photos of a printed PDF form that has been filled out by hand in pencil, I even run a script to scrape annotations in PDF portfolios to scrape video links and pass them to youtube-dl, to ensure everything submitted gets picked up and is provided for evaluation. This is why I think it would be nice if there was at least some responsibility on the part of the student.

whatatita 6y ago
> Knowing a file type is an "esoteric technical requirement" ? Yes, when it is outside of the scope of the test. Unless they're testing the students on their knowledge of data storage, or similar, this is out of scope.
- consonaut 6y ago
  Well, I disagree. I think "media competence" is more important than spelling or grammar and should be something expected of someone entering tertiary education.
  - johnmaguire2013 6y ago
    But that's not what the test is about. It's not a category on the test.
    - consonaut 6y ago
      It's not an explicit category on the test and I never debated that. It might be an implicit requirement though. Just how when you take your drivers test you should actually be able to operate your vehicle and know the laws around operating a motor vehicle aside from the explicit knowledge required from you in the test. But I understand how this might be a foreign concept for someone from the US.
      - mmmmmk 6y ago
        > But I understand how this might be a foreign concept for someone from the US. What? In the US, knowing how to operate your vehicle and the laws around operating a motor vehicle IS the drivers test. Your argument is not reasonable. Knowing the nuances of file formats is irrelevant to AP exams in US History, Calculus, Physics, etc. This is a failure of the administrators to make a proper test. The College Board specializes in tests- that's what they do, and they screwed up.
        consonaut 6y ago
        >What? In the US, knowing how to operate your vehicle and the laws around operating a motor vehicle IS the drivers test. Yes, that is why in eg Georgia or Wisconsin I am basically one PDf away from getting a preliminary drivers license. Come to a EU country and get your drivers license and get back to me. While I'd like to keep arguing with fresh accounts like yours, you are full of shit. If at the age of 16 you do not know the difference between a JPG and HFIC file, in my opinion, it is time to learn it. You can disagree with that but obviously the college board agrees with me. So now you can go back to argue that there are better technical solutions and I won't argue against that but frankly you better get used to what is expected of you. Try and change the world after you get done with your studies. When you get to design the systems your applicants will use, you can fuck with your applicants all you like (like my university, accepting every file format <50MB for single files and making every effort that everything gets viewed).
        dang 6y ago
        Please don't cross into personal attack, regardless how wrong another commenter is or you feel they are. It just makes the thread even worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - rsynnott 6y ago
    Well, I suppose you’re welcome to have whatever bizarre opinions you like, but you should recognise that they’re pretty fringe. No, this isn’t something the average person should need to know about.
    - consonaut 6y ago
      Seriously, this is your argument? Knowing the file type I upload is "fringe knowledge"? And this is somehow the target services fault? >No, this isn’t something the average person should need to know about. I think you live in a weird bubble where there are no average office workers and all your co-workers come from colleges after they had a CS education. Please do some work in either the edu field or a non start-up office environment and get back to me. File types are something every 14 year old should know about.
      - alistairSH 6y ago
        By default, both Windows and MacOS hide file extensions. Smart phones almost universally hide them, if they give you a file explorer at all. I suspect most teenagers (and that's what we're talking about here - 17, 18 years olds finishing secondary school) would have a notion that jpg and gif are image formats, and pdf and dcx are a document formats. I suspect few would know much beyond that, and most would not have had much reason to worry about converting between formats. [I work in higher ed tech, my gut feeling here is based on performing usability testing of other software] Add in an unexpected file format glitch during the most important test of their life? Yeah, I'm not at all surprised that some/many screwed up. This is 100% on College Board for failing to handle the situation gracefully. They didn't need to accept heif files. They did need to provide detailed instructions ahead of time, including possible issues with unsupported formats.
        consonaut 6y ago
        > I suspect few would know much beyond that, and most would not have had much reason to worry about converting between formats. Ok, first of, why should I (as an institution) care about the people unable to fulfil the conditions of my test? Maybe I only want people with a basic understanding of file formats because chances are they will have less issues with future applications? > They did need to provide detailed instructions ahead of time, including possible issues with unsupported formats. They send out a message a week before the tests. The website only accepted the allowed formats. You could complain about them using Twitter to send out that message but you are not. > They didn't need to accept heif files. They did need to provide detailed instructions ahead of time, including possible issues with unsupported formats. They did not accept .heic files (see the source from the upload js file). They did provide a list of supported files. Maybe the handholding should stop at some point?
spideymans 6y ago
You’re vastly overestimating the competence of the average computer user. There’s a sizeable minority of people out there that don’t know what file extensions are, and even if they do know about them, they might not understand how they work (hence students attempting to convert file types by changing the extension). File extensions are an implementation detail that, ideally, end users should never be forced to think about. There are graceful solutions to this problem; the College Board just didn’t do their due diligence.
- consonaut 6y ago
  I'm not overestimating them. I see lots of college admission files, I know how inept most high school graduates are. I would like to see a higher base standard because frankly these issues are not going away for them and I don't see it as a tertiary education issue. 3 to 6 years later they will still have to submit resumes and portfolios and they will suck at it but the places they submit these to now longer offer any grace periods. File size to large? Fuck you. Wrong file type? Fuck you. Unsigned PDF? Fuck you. Missing a document? Fuck you. Missed a dead line? Fuck you.
apricot 6y ago
Yes. Your average user knows nothing of file types. They know about pictures. Ask your average iPhone users whether their pictures are stored as JPEG, HEIC or TIFF files and you'll get a blank stare most of the time.

whatatita 6y ago

> Knowing a file type is an "esoteric technical requirement" ? Yes, when it is outside of the scope of the test. Unless they're testing the students on their knowledge of data storage, or similar, this is out of scope.

consonaut 6y ago
Well, I disagree. I think "media competence" is more important than spelling or grammar and should be something expected of someone entering tertiary education.
- johnmaguire2013 6y ago
  But that's not what the test is about. It's not a category on the test.
  - consonaut 6y ago
    It's not an explicit category on the test and I never debated that. It might be an implicit requirement though. Just how when you take your drivers test you should actually be able to operate your vehicle and know the laws around operating a motor vehicle aside from the explicit knowledge required from you in the test. But I understand how this might be a foreign concept for someone from the US.
    - mmmmmk 6y ago
      > But I understand how this might be a foreign concept for someone from the US. What? In the US, knowing how to operate your vehicle and the laws around operating a motor vehicle IS the drivers test. Your argument is not reasonable. Knowing the nuances of file formats is irrelevant to AP exams in US History, Calculus, Physics, etc. This is a failure of the administrators to make a proper test. The College Board specializes in tests- that's what they do, and they screwed up.
      - consonaut 6y ago
        >What? In the US, knowing how to operate your vehicle and the laws around operating a motor vehicle IS the drivers test. Yes, that is why in eg Georgia or Wisconsin I am basically one PDf away from getting a preliminary drivers license. Come to a EU country and get your drivers license and get back to me. While I'd like to keep arguing with fresh accounts like yours, you are full of shit. If at the age of 16 you do not know the difference between a JPG and HFIC file, in my opinion, it is time to learn it. You can disagree with that but obviously the college board agrees with me. So now you can go back to argue that there are better technical solutions and I won't argue against that but frankly you better get used to what is expected of you. Try and change the world after you get done with your studies. When you get to design the systems your applicants will use, you can fuck with your applicants all you like (like my university, accepting every file format <50MB for single files and making every effort that everything gets viewed).
        dang 6y ago
        Please don't cross into personal attack, regardless how wrong another commenter is or you feel they are. It just makes the thread even worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- rsynnott 6y ago
  Well, I suppose you’re welcome to have whatever bizarre opinions you like, but you should recognise that they’re pretty fringe. No, this isn’t something the average person should need to know about.
  - consonaut 6y ago
    Seriously, this is your argument? Knowing the file type I upload is "fringe knowledge"? And this is somehow the target services fault? >No, this isn’t something the average person should need to know about. I think you live in a weird bubble where there are no average office workers and all your co-workers come from colleges after they had a CS education. Please do some work in either the edu field or a non start-up office environment and get back to me. File types are something every 14 year old should know about.
    - alistairSH 6y ago
      By default, both Windows and MacOS hide file extensions. Smart phones almost universally hide them, if they give you a file explorer at all. I suspect most teenagers (and that's what we're talking about here - 17, 18 years olds finishing secondary school) would have a notion that jpg and gif are image formats, and pdf and dcx are a document formats. I suspect few would know much beyond that, and most would not have had much reason to worry about converting between formats. [I work in higher ed tech, my gut feeling here is based on performing usability testing of other software] Add in an unexpected file format glitch during the most important test of their life? Yeah, I'm not at all surprised that some/many screwed up. This is 100% on College Board for failing to handle the situation gracefully. They didn't need to accept heif files. They did need to provide detailed instructions ahead of time, including possible issues with unsupported formats.
      - consonaut 6y ago
        > I suspect few would know much beyond that, and most would not have had much reason to worry about converting between formats. Ok, first of, why should I (as an institution) care about the people unable to fulfil the conditions of my test? Maybe I only want people with a basic understanding of file formats because chances are they will have less issues with future applications? > They did need to provide detailed instructions ahead of time, including possible issues with unsupported formats. They send out a message a week before the tests. The website only accepted the allowed formats. You could complain about them using Twitter to send out that message but you are not. > They didn't need to accept heif files. They did need to provide detailed instructions ahead of time, including possible issues with unsupported formats. They did not accept .heic files (see the source from the upload js file). They did provide a list of supported files. Maybe the handholding should stop at some point?

spideymans 6y ago

You’re vastly overestimating the competence of the average computer user. There’s a sizeable minority of people out there that don’t know what file extensions are, and even if they do know about them, they might not understand how they work (hence students attempting to convert file types by changing the extension). File extensions are an implementation detail that, ideally, end users should never be forced to think about. There are graceful solutions to this problem; the College Board just didn’t do their due diligence.

consonaut 6y ago
I'm not overestimating them. I see lots of college admission files, I know how inept most high school graduates are. I would like to see a higher base standard because frankly these issues are not going away for them and I don't see it as a tertiary education issue. 3 to 6 years later they will still have to submit resumes and portfolios and they will suck at it but the places they submit these to now longer offer any grace periods. File size to large? Fuck you. Wrong file type? Fuck you. Unsigned PDF? Fuck you. Missing a document? Fuck you. Missed a dead line? Fuck you.

apricot 6y ago

Yes. Your average user knows nothing of file types. They know about pictures. Ask your average iPhone users whether their pictures are stored as JPEG, HEIC or TIFF files and you'll get a blank stare most of the time.