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> While I think UBI is one of the better solutions to the poverty problem in the US, I think almost any solution to poverty will fall prey to inflation if we do

> While I think UBI is one of the better solutions to the poverty problem in the US, I think almost any solution to poverty will fall prey to inflation if we don't address income inequality. Please define the "poverty problem" in the US. How is an increase in the money supply related to income inequality?

claudeganon 6y ago
> How is an increase in the money supply related to income inequality? Go read about whose asses were saved with printed the money during the 2008 financial crisis. Or the 7 trillion bailout fund for corporations that just passed.
- burrows 6y ago
  Corporate bailouts are bullshit, I agree. But even without bailouts there would still be massive inequality (which I think is fine). Cut spending and abolish the Fed.
kerkeslager 6y ago
> Please define the "poverty problem" in the US. Ugh. That's way too complex, and you know it. But I'll try to give you some bullet points: 1. Homelessness 2. Inability to afford healthcare 3. Home ownership being inaccessible to most people 4. Inability to afford childcare 5. Inability to afford education Note how 1, 4, and 5 aren't solvable by providing jobs--these are problems that prevent you from entering the workforce even when jobs are available. Frankly, I don't think you're asking this question in good faith. > How is an increase in the money supply related to income inequality? If you implement UBI, you're essentially also implementing a minimum wage, since companies will have to pay significantly more than UBI. Rather than accept a cut in their own pay to pay workers more, executives will raise the price of goods and services. This effect, across the economy causes inflation. So if you don't find a way to prevent executives raising their own pay to maintain inequality, you get inflation any time you give money to the poor. Economic conservatives tend to overstate this problem, in my opinion--there's nothing preventing you from just raising the UBI proportional to inflation. But historically, minimum wage hasn't tracked inflation, and I worry that UBI would suffer the same problem.
- jpindar 6y ago
  >since companies will have to pay significantly more than UBI. They would only have to do that if people had to choose between taking the job and getting UBI.
  - kerkeslager 6y ago
    Ehh, not exactly. My personal situation is an example: if UBI were implemented I would quit working immediately to pursue a graduate degree. Granted, that graduate degree would lead me back into the workforce eventually, but at least in the short run, it would take significant incentives to keep me in the workforce if pursuing education instead were an option. I also know someone who works for $20/hour, and pays $12/hour for childcare. $8/hour isn't worth anyone's time in 2020, but they do it because government assistance doesn't pay their bills. If they were receiving a livable UBI, I have no doubt that they would choose to raise their children full time rather than work for an absurdly low wage.
    - burrows 6y ago
      > If they were receiving a livable UBI, I have no doubt that they would choose to raise their children full time rather than work for an absurdly low wage. Having a child isn’t some externality requiring government intervention. Your friend is an adult who choose to allocate their time into child-rearing rather than wage-increasing activities.

claudeganon 6y ago

> How is an increase in the money supply related to income inequality? Go read about whose asses were saved with printed the money during the 2008 financial crisis. Or the 7 trillion bailout fund for corporations that just passed.

burrows 6y ago
Corporate bailouts are bullshit, I agree. But even without bailouts there would still be massive inequality (which I think is fine). Cut spending and abolish the Fed.

kerkeslager 6y ago

> Please define the "poverty problem" in the US. Ugh. That's way too complex, and you know it. But I'll try to give you some bullet points: 1. Homelessness 2. Inability to afford healthcare 3. Home ownership being inaccessible to most people 4. Inability to afford childcare 5. Inability to afford education Note how 1, 4, and 5 aren't solvable by providing jobs--these are problems that prevent you from entering the workforce even when jobs are available. Frankly, I don't think you're asking this question in good faith. > How is an increase in the money supply related to income inequality? If you implement UBI, you're essentially also implementing a minimum wage, since companies will have to pay significantly more than UBI. Rather than accept a cut in their own pay to pay workers more, executives will raise the price of goods and services. This effect, across the economy causes inflation. So if you don't find a way to prevent executives raising their own pay to maintain inequality, you get inflation any time you give money to the poor. Economic conservatives tend to overstate this problem, in my opinion--there's nothing preventing you from just raising the UBI proportional to inflation. But historically, minimum wage hasn't tracked inflation, and I worry that UBI would suffer the same problem.

jpindar 6y ago
>since companies will have to pay significantly more than UBI. They would only have to do that if people had to choose between taking the job and getting UBI.
- kerkeslager 6y ago
  Ehh, not exactly. My personal situation is an example: if UBI were implemented I would quit working immediately to pursue a graduate degree. Granted, that graduate degree would lead me back into the workforce eventually, but at least in the short run, it would take significant incentives to keep me in the workforce if pursuing education instead were an option. I also know someone who works for $20/hour, and pays $12/hour for childcare. $8/hour isn't worth anyone's time in 2020, but they do it because government assistance doesn't pay their bills. If they were receiving a livable UBI, I have no doubt that they would choose to raise their children full time rather than work for an absurdly low wage.
  - burrows 6y ago
    > If they were receiving a livable UBI, I have no doubt that they would choose to raise their children full time rather than work for an absurdly low wage. Having a child isn’t some externality requiring government intervention. Your friend is an adult who choose to allocate their time into child-rearing rather than wage-increasing activities.