5 ms·

It doesn't replace people making things, though. You'd still want to work and create value to improve your situation. It'd just function as a floor and provide

by Reedx 6y ago

It doesn't replace people making things, though. You'd still want to work and create value to improve your situation. It'd just function as a floor and provide some stability. Bearing in mind the increasing rate of job destruction and creation. We're no longer in a world where you can rely on being able to have the same profession your whole life. Having that floor would be useful to smooth those transitions out, and a boon to entrepreneurship if it's easier for people to take risks.

klmadfejno 6y ago
> It doesn't replace people making things, though. You'd still want to work and provide value to improve your situation. Doing shitty jobs usually doesn't improve one's situation though. If you earn minimum wage you're going to be better off just trying to gain a marketable skill and living off your income. You say 'easier for people to take risks'. Well, yeah. So who's gonna be dumb enough to keep scrubbing grime off the bathroom floor when its easy and safe to invest in yourself? There's a solution to that of course, which is "pay people more", which is great. Now people get paid enough to merit working a shit job even with UBI. But now we have a different problem, things cost more to produce, which means prices go up! How much do they go up? Well probably to around the point at which the guy scrubbing grime is at the same level of economic wealth as before, and the guy who stopped to work on self improvement suddenly can't survive on his not-longer-basic UBI. We need people to perform shitty jobs. Increasing real wages would be a good step to do that. Talk of people being able to take more risks in entrepreneurship is just techie dreams about how it could be better if their privileged economic condition were a little more privileged. It's not wrong, but it's hardly an important problem for society.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
zelly 6y ago
There are countries with a permanent dole. See the UK and other Northern Euro nations. You just have to fake an autism diagnosis to get $3k euros a month in cash alone (not counting all the other programs). Why isn't that the entrepreneurship capital of the world? Why is Europe still so poor? Why is America--the only place where there isn't a safety net and you can literally die on the street if you make too many bad decisions--the entrepreneurship capital of the world? Lots of businesses have been founded by people desperate to make a buck. Necessity is the mother of all invention. People take risks out of desperation, not for "fun".
- DanBC 6y ago
  > See the UK and other Northern Euro nations. You just have to fake an autism diagnosis to get $3k euros a month in cash alone (not counting all the other programs). In the UK we have a variety of disability benefits. Someone starting a claim today is probably going to apply for New Style ESA. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-style-employment-and-support-allowance-detailed-guide#how-much-new-style-esa-to-expect https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-style-employment-and-support... > If you have been found to have limited capability for work, you will move onto the ‘main phase’ for New Style ESA and you will get the basic allowance, plus a ‘support component’ if you are put in the support group. > basic allowance (standard rate) – up to £74.35 (per week) > support component – £39.20 (per week) ((74.35 + 39.20) * 52) / 12 = £492.05 per calendar month. That's €550 per month. To qualify for this with autism you'll need to persuade your GP to give you a referral to local MH services, and persuade them to give you a referral to an autism assessment service, and then you'd need to persuade two specialist healthcare professionals that you have autism. That will give you the diagnosis. However, the Department for Work and Pensions will use their own independent healthcare professionals and you'll need to pass that assessment. That's not seeing if you're autistic or not, that's seeing if you have impairments in your day to day life that interfere with your ability to work. These functional assessments are carried out every 3 years.
  - misun78 6y ago
    Jeez, what a bureaucratic nightmare this sounds
- Reedx 6y ago
  Well, I think you can overdo it. Yang's proposal was $1k/mo, which seems more like the sweet spot.
  - ThrowawayR2 6y ago
    It'll never stay $1k a month because voters will vote in politicians that will increase it, year after year. We've already seen this happen with the US Social Security program. Why repeat something that is known not to work?

by Reedx 6y ago

klmadfejno 6y ago

> It doesn't replace people making things, though. You'd still want to work and provide value to improve your situation. Doing shitty jobs usually doesn't improve one's situation though. If you earn minimum wage you're going to be better off just trying to gain a marketable skill and living off your income. You say 'easier for people to take risks'. Well, yeah. So who's gonna be dumb enough to keep scrubbing grime off the bathroom floor when its easy and safe to invest in yourself? There's a solution to that of course, which is "pay people more", which is great. Now people get paid enough to merit working a shit job even with UBI. But now we have a different problem, things cost more to produce, which means prices go up! How much do they go up? Well probably to around the point at which the guy scrubbing grime is at the same level of economic wealth as before, and the guy who stopped to work on self improvement suddenly can't survive on his not-longer-basic UBI. We need people to perform shitty jobs. Increasing real wages would be a good step to do that. Talk of people being able to take more risks in entrepreneurship is just techie dreams about how it could be better if their privileged economic condition were a little more privileged. It's not wrong, but it's hardly an important problem for society.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

zelly 6y ago

There are countries with a permanent dole. See the UK and other Northern Euro nations. You just have to fake an autism diagnosis to get $3k euros a month in cash alone (not counting all the other programs). Why isn't that the entrepreneurship capital of the world? Why is Europe still so poor? Why is America--the only place where there isn't a safety net and you can literally die on the street if you make too many bad decisions--the entrepreneurship capital of the world? Lots of businesses have been founded by people desperate to make a buck. Necessity is the mother of all invention. People take risks out of desperation, not for "fun".

DanBC 6y ago
> See the UK and other Northern Euro nations. You just have to fake an autism diagnosis to get $3k euros a month in cash alone (not counting all the other programs). In the UK we have a variety of disability benefits. Someone starting a claim today is probably going to apply for New Style ESA. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-style-employment-and-support-allowance-detailed-guide#how-much-new-style-esa-to-expect https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-style-employment-and-support... > If you have been found to have limited capability for work, you will move onto the ‘main phase’ for New Style ESA and you will get the basic allowance, plus a ‘support component’ if you are put in the support group. > basic allowance (standard rate) – up to £74.35 (per week) > support component – £39.20 (per week) ((74.35 + 39.20) * 52) / 12 = £492.05 per calendar month. That's €550 per month. To qualify for this with autism you'll need to persuade your GP to give you a referral to local MH services, and persuade them to give you a referral to an autism assessment service, and then you'd need to persuade two specialist healthcare professionals that you have autism. That will give you the diagnosis. However, the Department for Work and Pensions will use their own independent healthcare professionals and you'll need to pass that assessment. That's not seeing if you're autistic or not, that's seeing if you have impairments in your day to day life that interfere with your ability to work. These functional assessments are carried out every 3 years.
- misun78 6y ago
  Jeez, what a bureaucratic nightmare this sounds
Reedx 6y ago
Well, I think you can overdo it. Yang's proposal was $1k/mo, which seems more like the sweet spot.
- ThrowawayR2 6y ago
  It'll never stay $1k a month because voters will vote in politicians that will increase it, year after year. We've already seen this happen with the US Social Security program. Why repeat something that is known not to work?