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I seriously don’t know why people believe this will work and unlock the latent poet or artist within the average joe. As far as I have read most experiments hav

I seriously don’t know why people believe this will work and unlock the latent poet or artist within the average joe. As far as I have read most experiments have had mixed results, and we don’t really know what the full impact will be if implemented in a nation of 350MM people. My suspicion is in a couple years people will notice that housing, food, and transportation has gone up commensurate with their “basic income”. Then we will find ourselves in a vicious battle to justify raising or lowering it every couple years. And forget about ever putting the genie back into the bottle. The risks are huge.

snarf21 6y ago
I agree, there is just no way for it to work. We'd be better off with less overhead versions of existing programs and higher tax breaks for the poor, maybe no federal taxes under 200% of poverty. Add in Medicare for all in the same bracket and we meet most of the "upside" in a simpler and sustainable plan. I've spent some time trying to envision the goals of UBI from the other side. Could you supplement volunteers and artists using a closed loop rewards program? My thinking caused me to create The Good Loop, http://thegoodloop.org http://thegoodloop.org, it isn't implemented yet but hopefully someday.
- jason5543 6y ago
  I think Medicare for all people under 200% of poverty could easily be achieved if we hiked up the corporate tax rate to what it used to be 50-100 years ago. But you have to stop the birth tourism, stop handing out citizenship to anyone not in America for 4+ generations, and deport all of your illegal aliens. Coastal, liberal americans want to have it both ways - expensive government services for the poor, and the continuous importation of a serf class from the 3rd world.
jason5543 6y ago
>I don't know why people believe this will unlock the latent poet or artist within the average joe. Great perspective. Before the industrial revolution, most people were serfs. Speaking broadly, our genetics and our blood have not risen above our essential serfdom. I haven't done my homework on UBI; that said, I distrust the concept of radical economic schemes to help poor people, because poor people can't be helped, they are born slaves and they will die slaves, and the current amount of social mobility that the nations of the world provide is probably enough to help out those of the slave class destined for greater things.
jdhn 6y ago
>I seriously don’t know why people believe this will work and unlock the latent poet or artist within the average joe. I completely agree. I feel that this is a narrative that's parotted by academics who believe that because they may have these latent abilities, everybody has this. I haven't seen a surge in poetry or startups in the Rust Belt, where lots of people are on quasi-UBI (disability payments). >Then we will find ourselves in a vicious battle to justify raising or lowering it every couple years. There's also the matter of having larger payments to people in certain areas in the first place. For example, I can see someone saying that there's a "flat" UBI for everyone, but that there's also a COLA payment on top of that for people in HCOL areas.

snarf21 6y ago

I agree, there is just no way for it to work. We'd be better off with less overhead versions of existing programs and higher tax breaks for the poor, maybe no federal taxes under 200% of poverty. Add in Medicare for all in the same bracket and we meet most of the "upside" in a simpler and sustainable plan. I've spent some time trying to envision the goals of UBI from the other side. Could you supplement volunteers and artists using a closed loop rewards program? My thinking caused me to create The Good Loop, http://thegoodloop.org http://thegoodloop.org, it isn't implemented yet but hopefully someday.

jason5543 6y ago
I think Medicare for all people under 200% of poverty could easily be achieved if we hiked up the corporate tax rate to what it used to be 50-100 years ago. But you have to stop the birth tourism, stop handing out citizenship to anyone not in America for 4+ generations, and deport all of your illegal aliens. Coastal, liberal americans want to have it both ways - expensive government services for the poor, and the continuous importation of a serf class from the 3rd world.

jason5543 6y ago

>I don't know why people believe this will unlock the latent poet or artist within the average joe. Great perspective. Before the industrial revolution, most people were serfs. Speaking broadly, our genetics and our blood have not risen above our essential serfdom. I haven't done my homework on UBI; that said, I distrust the concept of radical economic schemes to help poor people, because poor people can't be helped, they are born slaves and they will die slaves, and the current amount of social mobility that the nations of the world provide is probably enough to help out those of the slave class destined for greater things.

jdhn 6y ago

>I seriously don’t know why people believe this will work and unlock the latent poet or artist within the average joe. I completely agree. I feel that this is a narrative that's parotted by academics who believe that because they may have these latent abilities, everybody has this. I haven't seen a surge in poetry or startups in the Rust Belt, where lots of people are on quasi-UBI (disability payments). >Then we will find ourselves in a vicious battle to justify raising or lowering it every couple years. There's also the matter of having larger payments to people in certain areas in the first place. For example, I can see someone saying that there's a "flat" UBI for everyone, but that there's also a COLA payment on top of that for people in HCOL areas.