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I am 100% on the side of the school. Unlike with JPEG, everybody who wants to work with HEIC should pay licence fees. Also, HEIC is like 50x more complex than J

I am 100% on the side of the school. Unlike with JPEG, everybody who wants to work with HEIC should pay licence fees. Also, HEIC is like 50x more complex than JPEG. I hope the world will never get to a point, where each phone brand stores photos in their own format, and you need a special software from the phone manufacturer to view the photos (that is what we have now with raw photography formats, and what we used to have in the past with phone chargers).

whalesalad 6y ago
Okay so JPEG for the rest of eternity then?
- sethammons 6y ago
  I recall the shift from jpeg to png as a web default. Many sites would not accept one or the other. Eventually, png became more and more popular and "won." The same can happen with other formats, but it takes time. Any any site/org/company that deals with these uploads or displaying the images needs to be clear on what they can do and error out early when they can't do it. I recall "sorry, you tried to upload a png file, we only support jpeg" messages with links to details about the difference and how to convert them. And mime inspection worked back then too, so changing the extension was not good enough.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- IvanK_net 6y ago
  Of course not. But if we are talking about replacing JPG, two things are necessary: a new format should not be restricted by patents and licence fees, and such movement has to be coordinated with all other "players" in the industry. Apple did not do any of it.
  - gbear605 6y ago
    But that isn’t true about HEIC. There isn’t a license fee.
    - pornel 6y ago
      HEIC is based on H.265, so there is a whole separate organization dedicated licensing and litigating its patents.
      - gbear605 6y ago
        No? It’s an ISO standard that’s separate from H.265. Maybe you’re thinking of HEVC, which is like that. (Alternatively I’m wrong, which is totally possible)
        nshepperd 6y ago
        HEIC is defined as HEVC in a HEIF container. So yes, it's patent encumbered. Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Image_File_Format#HEIC:_HEVC_in_HEIF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Image_File_For...
        gbear605 6y ago
        I learned something today, thanks :)
matsemann 6y ago
I've never even heard of HEIC before, I'd probably make the same mistake.
- castratikron 6y ago
  Soon to be listed on College Board software dev requirements: Minimum 5 years experience with the HEIC image format
pkage 6y ago
JPEG is like 50x more complex than PPM, but we eventually moved off that standard as well due to storage size and feature limitations. Plus, it's being adopted by both iPhone and Android--it's not like it's a proprietary format specific only to Apple. Not to mention HEIF/HEIC images take up a fraction of the space of equivalent quality JPEGs, which is significant if you're a shutterbug who fills up their phone with photos.
- slx26 6y ago
  Maybe we should have some standards with very simple formats that are "universal" and should be supported everywhere to solve this kind of problems, even if they are not ideal. I understand the pros of complex formats, but then we end with things like browsers that are many million lines long. It might not seem too bad, but in my opinion that detracts not just from open source, but also making computing accessible, universal and usable for everyone.
- IvanK_net 6y ago
  There are many "smart" ways in creating JPGs. JPG compressors improved in recent years. If you have a HEIC image, it can usually be saved as JPG with the same quality, which is larger by only 10 - 15%. The term "fraction" is a complete nonsense. Also, you can switch your camera settings in the iOS to save a JPG instead.
Mirioron 6y ago
Windows, macOS, iOS and Android all support it though.
- KingMachiavelli 6y ago
  But no browsers do [1]. For an OS that does its best to hide file types & extensions from the user, it's absurd to not have robust file type conversions when moving/sharing files between apps. [1] https://caniuse.com/#feat=heif https://caniuse.com/#feat=heif
tiglionabbit 6y ago
"Wants to work with" doesn't apply here. This is what the phone does by default, so it's not a conscious choice of the user. Also, if the college had written the `accepts` field on their form correctly it would have been converted to JPG automatically when they uploaded it.

whalesalad 6y ago

Okay so JPEG for the rest of eternity then?

sethammons 6y ago
I recall the shift from jpeg to png as a web default. Many sites would not accept one or the other. Eventually, png became more and more popular and "won." The same can happen with other formats, but it takes time. Any any site/org/company that deals with these uploads or displaying the images needs to be clear on what they can do and error out early when they can't do it. I recall "sorry, you tried to upload a png file, we only support jpeg" messages with links to details about the difference and how to convert them. And mime inspection worked back then too, so changing the extension was not good enough.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
IvanK_net 6y ago
Of course not. But if we are talking about replacing JPG, two things are necessary: a new format should not be restricted by patents and licence fees, and such movement has to be coordinated with all other "players" in the industry. Apple did not do any of it.
- gbear605 6y ago
  But that isn’t true about HEIC. There isn’t a license fee.
  - pornel 6y ago
    HEIC is based on H.265, so there is a whole separate organization dedicated licensing and litigating its patents.
    - gbear605 6y ago
      No? It’s an ISO standard that’s separate from H.265. Maybe you’re thinking of HEVC, which is like that. (Alternatively I’m wrong, which is totally possible)
      - nshepperd 6y ago
        HEIC is defined as HEVC in a HEIF container. So yes, it's patent encumbered. Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Image_File_Format#HEIC:_HEVC_in_HEIF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Image_File_For...
        gbear605 6y ago
        I learned something today, thanks :)

matsemann 6y ago

I've never even heard of HEIC before, I'd probably make the same mistake.

castratikron 6y ago
Soon to be listed on College Board software dev requirements: Minimum 5 years experience with the HEIC image format

pkage 6y ago

JPEG is like 50x more complex than PPM, but we eventually moved off that standard as well due to storage size and feature limitations. Plus, it's being adopted by both iPhone and Android--it's not like it's a proprietary format specific only to Apple. Not to mention HEIF/HEIC images take up a fraction of the space of equivalent quality JPEGs, which is significant if you're a shutterbug who fills up their phone with photos.

slx26 6y ago
Maybe we should have some standards with very simple formats that are "universal" and should be supported everywhere to solve this kind of problems, even if they are not ideal. I understand the pros of complex formats, but then we end with things like browsers that are many million lines long. It might not seem too bad, but in my opinion that detracts not just from open source, but also making computing accessible, universal and usable for everyone.
IvanK_net 6y ago
There are many "smart" ways in creating JPGs. JPG compressors improved in recent years. If you have a HEIC image, it can usually be saved as JPG with the same quality, which is larger by only 10 - 15%. The term "fraction" is a complete nonsense. Also, you can switch your camera settings in the iOS to save a JPG instead.

Mirioron 6y ago

Windows, macOS, iOS and Android all support it though.

KingMachiavelli 6y ago
But no browsers do [1]. For an OS that does its best to hide file types & extensions from the user, it's absurd to not have robust file type conversions when moving/sharing files between apps. [1] https://caniuse.com/#feat=heif https://caniuse.com/#feat=heif

tiglionabbit 6y ago

"Wants to work with" doesn't apply here. This is what the phone does by default, so it's not a conscious choice of the user. Also, if the college had written the `accepts` field on their form correctly it would have been converted to JPG automatically when they uploaded it.