5 ms·

Are any of those things an actual standards? There is plenty of CSS that you need to write specifically for Chrome and Firefox.

acabal 16y ago
Yeah, but... not even text-shadow and gradients? Come on, IE :(
- paul9290 16y ago
  I was hoping the text on my site was going to look proper in IE9. What the heck is this? Anyone here from MS care to explain why they continue to hold back the web and make us front end engineers work harder? Uggghh...
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    > Anyone here from MS care to explain why they continue to hold back the web I am not from MS, but I can explain. Most of their money comes, directly and indirectly, from selling Windows and Office licenses. Making the web functional enough that it would compete with desktop apps would lessen their lock-in and reduce their future revenue. IE has been, since its very first release, designed to fragment the web and to prevent it from becoming a viable applications platform. It and its matching development tools are designed to lure companies into writing IE-specific code, locking themselves into Microsoft ecosystem. That's why they are having difficulties getting rid of IE 6 and XP - it worked too well. I am sure you were expecting their PR spin on this ;-) I am curious about what would it be.
    - encoderer 16y ago
      This argument has always baffled me. First, don't attribute to malice what could better be explained by incompetence. Second, isn't Ajax the most fundamental usability feature that allows web apps to compete with desktop apps? And who created the XMLHttpRequest object? Exactly.
  - jasonlotito 16y ago
    > Anyone here from MS care to explain why they continue to hold back the web and make us front end engineers work harder? Web sockets. Consider for a moment the issue with web sockets, and how the implementation was wrong, despite being put into browsers. Browsers had support for web sockets, and developers were developing for it. That obviously changed rather quickly. Microsoft's idea is not to support things before they are relatively stable and supportable. Basically, their idea is if they put something into IE9, they aren't removing support. That doesn't mean they aren't working on new features, nor are they preventing developers from adding it to their version of IE9 to test out the technologies. They call this "Site Ready". Basically, they feel the technology is ready for end users. Now, I'm merely providing the information they are providing to developers. Do not argue with me.
- emehrkay 16y ago
  It pains me that I have to hack for IE f'n 9 -- their best browser to date. Text-shadow and gradients would move design ahead in a good way. At least there are hacks, ms-filter cruft for text shadow and svg for gradients
bad_user 16y ago
The standard is defined by what browsers implement. Thus Microsoft is keeping the standard back. That's OK, consider Javascript Web Workers; apps will be able to run without direct support, but on capable browsers will get a performance boost. That's fine by me, more reasons for people to upgrade from IExplorer.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
rimantas 16y ago
Are any of those things an actual standards? Well, depends how do you define "actual standards". But pretty much yes, there is an big effort to have this consistent across browsers. Links to some: > * Application Cache (offline) http://www.w3.org/TR/offline-webapps/ http://www.w3.org/TR/offline-webapps/ > * Web Workers (threads in JavaScript) http://www.w3.org/TR/workers/ http://www.w3.org/TR/workers/ > * HTML5 Forms (validation mechanism, CSS3 selectors) http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/association-of-controls-and-forms.html#constraints http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/association-of-controls-and-forms... > * File API http://www.w3.org/TR/FileAPI/ http://www.w3.org/TR/FileAPI/ > * WebGL (3D) http://www.khronos.org/registry/webgl/specs/latest/ http://www.khronos.org/registry/webgl/specs/latest/ > * CSS3 Transitions (for animations) http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-transitions/ http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-transitions/ > * CSS3 Text Shadow http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-text/#text-shadow http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-text/#text-shadow > * CSS3 Gradients http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-images/#gradients http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-images/#gradients > * CSS3 Border Image http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-background/#border-images http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-background/#border-images > * CSS3 Flex box model http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-flexbox/ http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-flexbox/ > * ClassList APIs http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/common-dom-interfaces.html#common-dom-interfaces http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/common-dom-interfaces.html#common... > * FormData http://www.w3.org/TR/XMLHttpRequest2/#the-formdata-interface http://www.w3.org/TR/XMLHttpRequest2/#the-formdata-interface > * HTML5 History API http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/history.html#the-history-interface http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/history.html#the-history-interfac... > * Drag'n Drop from Desktop http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/dnd.html#dnd http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/dnd.html#dnd
- recoiledsnake 16y ago
  IE9 HTML Labs site for experimental features. http://html5labs.interoperabilitybridges.com/ http://html5labs.interoperabilitybridges.com/

acabal 16y ago

Yeah, but... not even text-shadow and gradients? Come on, IE :(

paul9290 16y ago
I was hoping the text on my site was going to look proper in IE9. What the heck is this? Anyone here from MS care to explain why they continue to hold back the web and make us front end engineers work harder? Uggghh...
- rbanffy 16y ago
  > Anyone here from MS care to explain why they continue to hold back the web I am not from MS, but I can explain. Most of their money comes, directly and indirectly, from selling Windows and Office licenses. Making the web functional enough that it would compete with desktop apps would lessen their lock-in and reduce their future revenue. IE has been, since its very first release, designed to fragment the web and to prevent it from becoming a viable applications platform. It and its matching development tools are designed to lure companies into writing IE-specific code, locking themselves into Microsoft ecosystem. That's why they are having difficulties getting rid of IE 6 and XP - it worked too well. I am sure you were expecting their PR spin on this ;-) I am curious about what would it be.
  - encoderer 16y ago
    This argument has always baffled me. First, don't attribute to malice what could better be explained by incompetence. Second, isn't Ajax the most fundamental usability feature that allows web apps to compete with desktop apps? And who created the XMLHttpRequest object? Exactly.
- jasonlotito 16y ago
  > Anyone here from MS care to explain why they continue to hold back the web and make us front end engineers work harder? Web sockets. Consider for a moment the issue with web sockets, and how the implementation was wrong, despite being put into browsers. Browsers had support for web sockets, and developers were developing for it. That obviously changed rather quickly. Microsoft's idea is not to support things before they are relatively stable and supportable. Basically, their idea is if they put something into IE9, they aren't removing support. That doesn't mean they aren't working on new features, nor are they preventing developers from adding it to their version of IE9 to test out the technologies. They call this "Site Ready". Basically, they feel the technology is ready for end users. Now, I'm merely providing the information they are providing to developers. Do not argue with me.
emehrkay 16y ago
It pains me that I have to hack for IE f'n 9 -- their best browser to date. Text-shadow and gradients would move design ahead in a good way. At least there are hacks, ms-filter cruft for text shadow and svg for gradients

bad_user 16y ago

The standard is defined by what browsers implement. Thus Microsoft is keeping the standard back. That's OK, consider Javascript Web Workers; apps will be able to run without direct support, but on capable browsers will get a performance boost. That's fine by me, more reasons for people to upgrade from IExplorer.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

rimantas 16y ago

Are any of those things an actual standards? Well, depends how do you define "actual standards". But pretty much yes, there is an big effort to have this consistent across browsers. Links to some: > * Application Cache (offline) http://www.w3.org/TR/offline-webapps/ http://www.w3.org/TR/offline-webapps/ > * Web Workers (threads in JavaScript) http://www.w3.org/TR/workers/ http://www.w3.org/TR/workers/ > * HTML5 Forms (validation mechanism, CSS3 selectors) http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/association-of-controls-and-forms.html#constraints http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/association-of-controls-and-forms... > * File API http://www.w3.org/TR/FileAPI/ http://www.w3.org/TR/FileAPI/ > * WebGL (3D) http://www.khronos.org/registry/webgl/specs/latest/ http://www.khronos.org/registry/webgl/specs/latest/ > * CSS3 Transitions (for animations) http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-transitions/ http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-transitions/ > * CSS3 Text Shadow http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-text/#text-shadow http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-text/#text-shadow > * CSS3 Gradients http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-images/#gradients http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-images/#gradients > * CSS3 Border Image http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-background/#border-images http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-background/#border-images > * CSS3 Flex box model http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-flexbox/ http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-flexbox/ > * ClassList APIs http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/common-dom-interfaces.html#common-dom-interfaces http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/common-dom-interfaces.html#common... > * FormData http://www.w3.org/TR/XMLHttpRequest2/#the-formdata-interface http://www.w3.org/TR/XMLHttpRequest2/#the-formdata-interface > * HTML5 History API http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/history.html#the-history-interface http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/history.html#the-history-interfac... > * Drag'n Drop from Desktop http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/dnd.html#dnd http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/dnd.html#dnd

recoiledsnake 16y ago
IE9 HTML Labs site for experimental features. http://html5labs.interoperabilitybridges.com/ http://html5labs.interoperabilitybridges.com/