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Because schools aren't about to let students use phones/laptops during exams, and not every student has readily available access to the internet. Also on occas

Because schools aren't about to let students use phones/laptops during exams, and not every student has readily available access to the internet. Also on occasion I need to do some simple plotting/multi-step math and my old high school TI-83 in the desk drawer is simply more convenient than firing up a Mathematics suite and looking up the arcane commands to get it to show what I actually want. But for professional use, yeah there are better tools.

oldsklgdfth 6y ago
> Because schools aren't about to let students use phones/laptops during exams I was totally blown away when I entered a US high school only to find that math class was basically teaching you how to use the calculator, not how to do that math.
- kube-system 6y ago
  This was not my experience in a US high school. We weren't permitted to use calculators until we demonstrated paper-and-pencil proficiency with a topic, and we always had to show each step of our work. But education is mostly regulated by state and local authorities in the US, so YMMV.
  - oldsklgdfth 6y ago
    > demonstrated paper-and-pencil proficiency with a topic That was my experience in Europe, but without moving to a calculator. I attended a public east coast high school.
    - scottLobster 6y ago
      School quality in the US is very location dependent, as public schools are largely funded by property taxes. I also went to a public east coast high school, and calculator use was mixed. Some exams allowed calculators, others not. Often the exam was designed such that it was testing your knowledge of a concept more than the numerically correct answer, showing work was required. So a calculator was useful for checking answers but correct answers with no work would get you a 20% at best.
      - avhon1 6y ago
        > School quality in the US is very location dependent, as public schools are largely funded by property taxes Also because curricula are designated at the state level, and teacher certification requirements vary by state and county.
    - kube-system 6y ago
      I think never using a calculator is just as misguided as always using one would be. Using a calculator is a skill in and of itself.
      - oldsklgdfth 6y ago
        I agree with that. You should pick up some way of automating that effort, while still knowing how to do it yourself.
chongli 6y ago
That's silly. None of my (I'm a math major) university calculus courses (calc 1, calc 2, calc 3, differential equations) allowed calculators on quizzes or exams. Graphing calculators are a zombie technology kept alive by completely bogus, artificial means. There's no reason to use a calculator on a properly-designed calculus exam. We were doing everything from Taylor series to triple integrals without them. Teaching kids to rely on a calculator from a young age severely limits their ability to develop the basic arithmetic "muscle memory" (for lack of a better term) needed to manipulate equations quickly in more advanced math classes. It's a real shame.
- drdaeman 6y ago
  But what's the value of this arithmetic muscle memory, in a world of ubiquitous computing? As long as you don't treat this computing as magic that somehow solves your math problems (hah, true I was guilty of that when I was a school kid), but is fully aware about how it does it (the algorithm) and just let the machine do the boring bits.
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    Are you joking? Number sense is hugely useful in daily life. What if I have a recipe for three servings but five dinner guests? If I just passed milepost 472 and I average 55 miles per hour, how long will it take me to reach Mexico? How many bottled liters of water can I fit in this box? How much is the 1.35% annual property tax on a million-dollar house, per month? You really want to whip out your laptop for all that?
    - dTal 6y ago
      >How much is the 1.35% annual property tax on a million-dollar house, per month? You really want to whip out your laptop for all that? I'll bite. In what scenario would it be useful to do this calculation in my head?
      - jeffbee 6y ago
        You're trying to figure out if you can afford that house based on your monthly pay?

oldsklgdfth 6y ago

> Because schools aren't about to let students use phones/laptops during exams I was totally blown away when I entered a US high school only to find that math class was basically teaching you how to use the calculator, not how to do that math.

kube-system 6y ago
This was not my experience in a US high school. We weren't permitted to use calculators until we demonstrated paper-and-pencil proficiency with a topic, and we always had to show each step of our work. But education is mostly regulated by state and local authorities in the US, so YMMV.
- oldsklgdfth 6y ago
  > demonstrated paper-and-pencil proficiency with a topic That was my experience in Europe, but without moving to a calculator. I attended a public east coast high school.
  - scottLobster 6y ago
    School quality in the US is very location dependent, as public schools are largely funded by property taxes. I also went to a public east coast high school, and calculator use was mixed. Some exams allowed calculators, others not. Often the exam was designed such that it was testing your knowledge of a concept more than the numerically correct answer, showing work was required. So a calculator was useful for checking answers but correct answers with no work would get you a 20% at best.
    - avhon1 6y ago
      > School quality in the US is very location dependent, as public schools are largely funded by property taxes Also because curricula are designated at the state level, and teacher certification requirements vary by state and county.
  - kube-system 6y ago
    I think never using a calculator is just as misguided as always using one would be. Using a calculator is a skill in and of itself.
    - oldsklgdfth 6y ago
      I agree with that. You should pick up some way of automating that effort, while still knowing how to do it yourself.

chongli 6y ago

That's silly. None of my (I'm a math major) university calculus courses (calc 1, calc 2, calc 3, differential equations) allowed calculators on quizzes or exams. Graphing calculators are a zombie technology kept alive by completely bogus, artificial means. There's no reason to use a calculator on a properly-designed calculus exam. We were doing everything from Taylor series to triple integrals without them. Teaching kids to rely on a calculator from a young age severely limits their ability to develop the basic arithmetic "muscle memory" (for lack of a better term) needed to manipulate equations quickly in more advanced math classes. It's a real shame.

drdaeman 6y ago
But what's the value of this arithmetic muscle memory, in a world of ubiquitous computing? As long as you don't treat this computing as magic that somehow solves your math problems (hah, true I was guilty of that when I was a school kid), but is fully aware about how it does it (the algorithm) and just let the machine do the boring bits.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  Are you joking? Number sense is hugely useful in daily life. What if I have a recipe for three servings but five dinner guests? If I just passed milepost 472 and I average 55 miles per hour, how long will it take me to reach Mexico? How many bottled liters of water can I fit in this box? How much is the 1.35% annual property tax on a million-dollar house, per month? You really want to whip out your laptop for all that?
  - dTal 6y ago
    >How much is the 1.35% annual property tax on a million-dollar house, per month? You really want to whip out your laptop for all that? I'll bite. In what scenario would it be useful to do this calculation in my head?
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      You're trying to figure out if you can afford that house based on your monthly pay?