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> Dr. Cameron Kyle-Sidell broke rank with consensus to share the experience of doctors on the front lines actually treating SARS-CoV-2 patients, by posting a fe

by DanBC 6y ago

> Dr. Cameron Kyle-Sidell broke rank with consensus to share the experience of doctors on the front lines actually treating SARS-CoV-2 patients, by posting a few videos expressing his frustration at the standards his ICU was implementing while treating SARS-CoV-2 [0]. He single handedly changed the COVID-19 standard of care in the United States by objecting to the consensus policy of ventilating fully-coherent people, thereby preventing untold number of patients from being harmed with ventilation. A later Spectator.co.uk article was written by a Canadian M.D. who traced the abandonment of ventilation for SARS-CoV-2 patients to Dr. Kyle-Sidell's efforts. The Canadian opined that Kyle-Sidell really just tapped in to the mass of front-line workers' observations that aggressive ventilation was not helping. You've completely misunderstood this. It's not the ventilation that was killing patients. It was the covid-19 that was killing patients. We've reduced the numbers of people going onto vents. This has not reduced the numbers of people dying. Now they're dying with nasal oxygen in a care home, not on a vent in an ICU. It's a better death, but they're still dead.

teslabox 6y ago
> It's not the ventilation that was killing patients. It was the covid-19 that was killing patients. I'm not a professional with years of slinging the lingo. But I think Kyle-Sidell's retweet of "Barotrauma is a real phenomenon" [0] implies [edit] that aggressive ventilation was actually what was killing people. Is it so unreasonable to propose that many of the prematurely-ventilated might have survived, if not for their ventilation? Wikipedia has a page about Barotrauma, which is damage to bodies caused by pressure differentials: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barotrauma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barotrauma Dr. @erikfreyrMD's earlier tweet said "I don't know where this dogma of 'intubate early' came from. Intubation is a death sentence. " [1] (emphasis added). [0] https://twitter.com/erikfreyrMD/status/1243775103071973376 https://twitter.com/erikfreyrMD/status/1243775103071973376 [1] https://twitter.com/erikfreyrMD/status/1243697159037259776 https://twitter.com/erikfreyrMD/status/1243697159037259776 [edit1: means -> implies]
- DanBC 6y ago
  > Is it so unreasonable to propose that many of the prematurely-ventilated might have survived, if not for their ventilation? Yes, because we've stopped intubating people so early and they're still dying.
s1artibartfast 6y ago
Do you have sources for any of your claims? My understanding is that there is a real medical discussion about when and under what circumstances it is appropriate to ventilate a covid patient. Some patients certainly die from ventilation who would otherwise have survived Covid. Some patients live due to venilation who would would otherwise have died.

by DanBC 6y ago

teslabox 6y ago

> It's not the ventilation that was killing patients. It was the covid-19 that was killing patients. I'm not a professional with years of slinging the lingo. But I think Kyle-Sidell's retweet of "Barotrauma is a real phenomenon" [0] implies [edit] that aggressive ventilation was actually what was killing people. Is it so unreasonable to propose that many of the prematurely-ventilated might have survived, if not for their ventilation? Wikipedia has a page about Barotrauma, which is damage to bodies caused by pressure differentials: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barotrauma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barotrauma Dr. @erikfreyrMD's earlier tweet said "I don't know where this dogma of 'intubate early' came from. Intubation is a death sentence. " [1] (emphasis added). [0] https://twitter.com/erikfreyrMD/status/1243775103071973376 https://twitter.com/erikfreyrMD/status/1243775103071973376 [1] https://twitter.com/erikfreyrMD/status/1243697159037259776 https://twitter.com/erikfreyrMD/status/1243697159037259776 [edit1: means -> implies]

DanBC 6y ago
> Is it so unreasonable to propose that many of the prematurely-ventilated might have survived, if not for their ventilation? Yes, because we've stopped intubating people so early and they're still dying.

s1artibartfast 6y ago

Do you have sources for any of your claims? My understanding is that there is a real medical discussion about when and under what circumstances it is appropriate to ventilate a covid patient. Some patients certainly die from ventilation who would otherwise have survived Covid. Some patients live due to venilation who would would otherwise have died.