4 ms·

See the comment about user panels. Select a random portion of your userbase and ask them. Talk to your account managers. Communicate between them. This is softw

by m0xte 6y ago

See the comment about user panels. Select a random portion of your userbase and ask them. Talk to your account managers. Communicate between them. This is software 101. I've built and supported software with 80k end users and did that effectively single-handedly. I'm sure a large corp can do the same if it sacrifices a bit of bottom line...

mbesto 6y ago
> Select a random portion of your userbase and ask them. This sounds great in theory - harder to do in practice. Often what ends up happening is the only people who will share their time with you are the ones who want something specifically changed for them. Thus my point, it's effective, but it's not a silver bullet. > I've built and supported software with 80k end users and did that effectively single-handedly. And plenty of businesses have used Google Analytics, Mixpanel, etc. combined with the aforementioned technique. TL;DR - The two strategies are not mutually exclusive.
- wtetzner 6y ago
  > This sounds great in theory - harder to do in practice. Sure, but lots of things are hard. That doesn't mean we should all be happy about software phoning home without the consent of the user.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  Problem is, the latter strategy is rarely used (telemetry is cheaper!), and as far as I can see the consequences, telemetry data is hard to use correctly. In particular, it's prone to become a mirror of your design, creating a feedback loop. Telemetry will show people will use more of the things you've exposed more, and less of the things you've exposed less, so if you take that at face value, then you're just amplifying your own initial design bias.
- reaperducer 6y ago
  This sounds great in theory - harder to do in practice And therein lies the root of "telemetry" — the SV bubble's lack of interest, lack of effort, and fear of interfacing with the wetware. Telemetry is easy. Talking to people is hard. Too bad.
kevingadd 6y ago
Finding representative portions of your userbase that will actually talk to you is pretty difficult. I've worked on a couple different products with millions of end users and we frequently discovered a subset of our userbase was having big problems and we simply weren't hearing from them.
- coribuci 6y ago
  > Finding representative portions of your userbase that will actually talk to you is pretty difficult. Finding developers that will listen to users is even more difficult. And Microsoft with its telemetry is one of the worse. They just collect user data and ignore every bug report. > I've worked on a couple different products with millions of end users and we frequently discovered a subset of our userbase was having big problems and we simply weren't hearing from them. How can people report bugs or express dissatisfaction with your program ?

by m0xte 6y ago

mbesto 6y ago

> Select a random portion of your userbase and ask them. This sounds great in theory - harder to do in practice. Often what ends up happening is the only people who will share their time with you are the ones who want something specifically changed for them. Thus my point, it's effective, but it's not a silver bullet. > I've built and supported software with 80k end users and did that effectively single-handedly. And plenty of businesses have used Google Analytics, Mixpanel, etc. combined with the aforementioned technique. TL;DR - The two strategies are not mutually exclusive.

wtetzner 6y ago
> This sounds great in theory - harder to do in practice. Sure, but lots of things are hard. That doesn't mean we should all be happy about software phoning home without the consent of the user.
TeMPOraL 6y ago
Problem is, the latter strategy is rarely used (telemetry is cheaper!), and as far as I can see the consequences, telemetry data is hard to use correctly. In particular, it's prone to become a mirror of your design, creating a feedback loop. Telemetry will show people will use more of the things you've exposed more, and less of the things you've exposed less, so if you take that at face value, then you're just amplifying your own initial design bias.
reaperducer 6y ago
This sounds great in theory - harder to do in practice And therein lies the root of "telemetry" — the SV bubble's lack of interest, lack of effort, and fear of interfacing with the wetware. Telemetry is easy. Talking to people is hard. Too bad.

kevingadd 6y ago

Finding representative portions of your userbase that will actually talk to you is pretty difficult. I've worked on a couple different products with millions of end users and we frequently discovered a subset of our userbase was having big problems and we simply weren't hearing from them.

coribuci 6y ago
> Finding representative portions of your userbase that will actually talk to you is pretty difficult. Finding developers that will listen to users is even more difficult. And Microsoft with its telemetry is one of the worse. They just collect user data and ignore every bug report. > I've worked on a couple different products with millions of end users and we frequently discovered a subset of our userbase was having big problems and we simply weren't hearing from them. How can people report bugs or express dissatisfaction with your program ?