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Why do you free work for a for-profit social network, especially if you say yourself that the work negatively impacts your mental health and that the community

Why do you free work for a for-profit social network, especially if you say yourself that the work negatively impacts your mental health and that the community you are moderating is toxic? What are you getting out of this?

friendlybus 6y ago
It used to be that the mods ran little fiefdoms that they advertised things to buy in some subreddit's feed. Those micro business success stories seem far less common in the past few years. I don't know why you would anymore.
Spivak 6y ago
Because the continued existence and quality of the subreddit brings value to them. It’s no different than volunteering. The fact that Reddit is for-profit doesn’t really enter into the equation. I don’t get it for relationship subreddits because it’s so mentally exhausting but for fandoms and niche communities the experience is super cool.
- dvtrn 6y ago
  It’s no different than volunteering. It's certainly volunteering in the synonymous sense of 'doing something for nothing because you can' but I feel this statement-left in the vacuous state of its own brevity-comes loaded with an unsaid implication that "volunteering" on Reddit is no different than "volunteering" in one's local community and I'm not sure it's that simple.
  - toyg 6y ago
    A lot of volunteer groups meet in for-profit places like cafes, and use for-profit ISPs and for-profit email providers or IM operators to talk to each other. An online forum is basically the same thing: a way to communicate.
    - dvtrn 6y ago
      Meeting together, talking about %thing%? Okay that's fair, I don't disagree that there are similarities. It does feel just as limited of a definition of 'volunteering' if taking the grandparent comment at face value.
  - yissp 6y ago
    That community does genuinely help real people struggling with their relationships, regardless of whatever value it's existence also provides to reddit. I don't think the motivation is all that different from volunteering in one's community, both come from a place of wanting to help others.
  - em-bee 6y ago
    i disagree. it is that simple. the community consists of the people that contribute to the discussion. the fact that this community is using reddit as their tool to communicate is secondary. if they as a group were unhappy with how things are done they could move. stackexchange, discord, whatever. moderators should be volunteers from that community either way, not paid outsiders.
- arkades 6y ago
  I don't think I've ever volunteered for a profit-maximizing private venture. Is that a thing people commonly do in real life? I mean, I've done internships, but the quid-pro-quo there was quite clear.
  - andai 6y ago
    (Serious question) what's the difference between an unpaid internship and volunteering?
    - arkades 6y ago
      An unpaid internship is done at a place where you expect to either get a job, or because the place and the work you do there is important to your subsequently getting a job or school entrance. E.g., I did a quality improvement internship at a hospital to get a job in quality improvement there, once upon a time. It was "unpaid," but it was an audition for a job that I wanted. As opposed to my time as a volunteer in a local free clinic, where no benefit accrued to me at all.
    - ciarannolan 6y ago
      I would assume most mods don't put "reddit mod" on their resume, for one.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  It's very different than volunteering - since most people don't volunteer at a FOR PROFIT company. I've volunteered at all sorts of community centers, schools, etc... Never once at a for-profit business in town.
  - Barrin92 6y ago
    As far as the business of reddit is concerned it provides the tech to run communities on, reddit itself doesn't manage the communities themselves (with the exception of admins stepping in to remove illegal stuff I suppose). In your analogy reddit is the property owner or landlord of the community center, but it does not operate the community center, so volunteers are necessary.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Goronmon 6y ago
What are you getting out of this? Not the OP, but most people just want to help a community that they are a part of and take a hand in making it better and helping members of the community. You have to remember, this issue is played on pretty much every online community that has likely ever existed, in some form or another. Long before the term "social network" became used.
- collyw 6y ago
  Judging from most moderators that are active it would appear to be a power thing for them.
  - Goronmon 6y ago
    Oh for sure, for some people that's definitely true. And honestly, the community itself self-selects for people for who that's true as well, since most reasonable people realize that being a moderator is actually kind of terrible in reality. So the people who last the longest tend to be the people who aren't just in it out of altruism (users work hard to drive that motive into the ground). But at the end of the day, you need moderators. And the job sucks and is unpaid, so you can't exactly select only the "perfect" candidates.
  - eganist 6y ago
    This is absolutely true, which is why we tend to be pretty conservative with adding new rules - to reduce the risk of people getting carried away with the hammer. Some communities are the exact opposite - they'd rather people hammer away specifically because they're extremely selective with content, so people with a "power thing" are a better fit for those communities.
  - goostavos 6y ago
    You're being downvoted, but GP directly lists one of his reasons for modding as "because Reddit will grow in influence" Being the invisible hand that shapes the narrative of an entire community to one that you see fit is surely an alluring power. Especially if you think the powers of that influence will grow over time. It's not crazy to assume that a portion of them are in it for the power. People love positions of minor authority. See: the fragmented history and (hilarious) mod power struggle that led to Seattle now having a bunch of differently managed subreddits.
ww520 6y ago
Power tripping is very addictive.
twic 6y ago
> Why do you free work for a for-profit social network They don't. They do the work for a community they're part of. The social network hosts that community, and tries to make a profit doing so. I organise a meetup that's held in a pub (well, not at the moment). People coming to the meetup spend money on the pub's beer and pizza. Am i doing free work for a for-profit public house?
- friendlybus 6y ago
  Yes you are. Social organizers, advertisers, trend setters, ect frequently get free product, kickbacks or some money for their 'work'. That's the work you have done. It's not your intent to do work and it's probably not the pub owners desire to pay for meetup organizers, but regardless of your and the pub owner's intent, work has happened.
  - cecilpl2 6y ago
    Is it not possible that the situation is a win-win for all parties and that all parties feel like they are well-compensated in terms of the value they've received, and that therefore no money actually needs to exchange hands? You may as well ask why people volunteer their time at all.
    - friendlybus 6y ago
      Hey I'm not saying money needs to change hands. I'm just pointing out it's work, like in the physics sense. Something valuable has happened, both in the business sense and social sense, but obviously the priority for parent poster is the socializing. Benefitting from socializing is not worth the reddit moderator role is my opinion, under the psychological load they operate in.
    - oarsinsync 6y ago
      Both points are valid I think. It's fair that both parties feel like they're benefiting, so no direct transaction needs to occur. Comparing this to volunteering generally isn't the same. I volunteer with local registered charities because I believe in their mission, and the volunteer work I do is directly impacting and improving the lives of the people I'm working with. Which may be the crux of the GP's question. Why volunteer in the community in a way that results in a for-profit organisation monetising you for their gain, instead of finding a non-profit in your community to be volunteering your time towards? The non-profit / charity in your community's goals are more likely to be aligned with your own, than the for-profit social network.
eganist 6y ago
> What are you getting out of this? For a nontrivial number of people, this community is the only place to turn. If we step away, do people incur harm as a result? Most likely. (in other words, it's almost a psychological obligation of sorts at this point)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
tsukurimashou 6y ago
this will certainly be unpopular but if they don't get any money out of it then most likely it's an ego / power thing
m-p-3 6y ago
I moderate a sub because if found it useful, I want to make sure it thrives and it's my way of giving back to the community, even if I don't participate as much as some other redditors.

friendlybus 6y ago

It used to be that the mods ran little fiefdoms that they advertised things to buy in some subreddit's feed. Those micro business success stories seem far less common in the past few years. I don't know why you would anymore.

Spivak 6y ago

Because the continued existence and quality of the subreddit brings value to them. It’s no different than volunteering. The fact that Reddit is for-profit doesn’t really enter into the equation. I don’t get it for relationship subreddits because it’s so mentally exhausting but for fandoms and niche communities the experience is super cool.

dvtrn 6y ago
It’s no different than volunteering. It's certainly volunteering in the synonymous sense of 'doing something for nothing because you can' but I feel this statement-left in the vacuous state of its own brevity-comes loaded with an unsaid implication that "volunteering" on Reddit is no different than "volunteering" in one's local community and I'm not sure it's that simple.
- toyg 6y ago
  A lot of volunteer groups meet in for-profit places like cafes, and use for-profit ISPs and for-profit email providers or IM operators to talk to each other. An online forum is basically the same thing: a way to communicate.
  - dvtrn 6y ago
    Meeting together, talking about %thing%? Okay that's fair, I don't disagree that there are similarities. It does feel just as limited of a definition of 'volunteering' if taking the grandparent comment at face value.
- yissp 6y ago
  That community does genuinely help real people struggling with their relationships, regardless of whatever value it's existence also provides to reddit. I don't think the motivation is all that different from volunteering in one's community, both come from a place of wanting to help others.
- em-bee 6y ago
  i disagree. it is that simple. the community consists of the people that contribute to the discussion. the fact that this community is using reddit as their tool to communicate is secondary. if they as a group were unhappy with how things are done they could move. stackexchange, discord, whatever. moderators should be volunteers from that community either way, not paid outsiders.
arkades 6y ago
I don't think I've ever volunteered for a profit-maximizing private venture. Is that a thing people commonly do in real life? I mean, I've done internships, but the quid-pro-quo there was quite clear.
- andai 6y ago
  (Serious question) what's the difference between an unpaid internship and volunteering?
  - arkades 6y ago
    An unpaid internship is done at a place where you expect to either get a job, or because the place and the work you do there is important to your subsequently getting a job or school entrance. E.g., I did a quality improvement internship at a hospital to get a job in quality improvement there, once upon a time. It was "unpaid," but it was an audition for a job that I wanted. As opposed to my time as a volunteer in a local free clinic, where no benefit accrued to me at all.
  - ciarannolan 6y ago
    I would assume most mods don't put "reddit mod" on their resume, for one.
koheripbal 6y ago
It's very different than volunteering - since most people don't volunteer at a FOR PROFIT company. I've volunteered at all sorts of community centers, schools, etc... Never once at a for-profit business in town.
- Barrin92 6y ago
  As far as the business of reddit is concerned it provides the tech to run communities on, reddit itself doesn't manage the communities themselves (with the exception of admins stepping in to remove illegal stuff I suppose). In your analogy reddit is the property owner or landlord of the community center, but it does not operate the community center, so volunteers are necessary.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Goronmon 6y ago

What are you getting out of this? Not the OP, but most people just want to help a community that they are a part of and take a hand in making it better and helping members of the community. You have to remember, this issue is played on pretty much every online community that has likely ever existed, in some form or another. Long before the term "social network" became used.

collyw 6y ago
Judging from most moderators that are active it would appear to be a power thing for them.
- Goronmon 6y ago
  Oh for sure, for some people that's definitely true. And honestly, the community itself self-selects for people for who that's true as well, since most reasonable people realize that being a moderator is actually kind of terrible in reality. So the people who last the longest tend to be the people who aren't just in it out of altruism (users work hard to drive that motive into the ground). But at the end of the day, you need moderators. And the job sucks and is unpaid, so you can't exactly select only the "perfect" candidates.
- eganist 6y ago
  This is absolutely true, which is why we tend to be pretty conservative with adding new rules - to reduce the risk of people getting carried away with the hammer. Some communities are the exact opposite - they'd rather people hammer away specifically because they're extremely selective with content, so people with a "power thing" are a better fit for those communities.
- goostavos 6y ago
  You're being downvoted, but GP directly lists one of his reasons for modding as "because Reddit will grow in influence" Being the invisible hand that shapes the narrative of an entire community to one that you see fit is surely an alluring power. Especially if you think the powers of that influence will grow over time. It's not crazy to assume that a portion of them are in it for the power. People love positions of minor authority. See: the fragmented history and (hilarious) mod power struggle that led to Seattle now having a bunch of differently managed subreddits.

ww520 6y ago

Power tripping is very addictive.

twic 6y ago

> Why do you free work for a for-profit social network They don't. They do the work for a community they're part of. The social network hosts that community, and tries to make a profit doing so. I organise a meetup that's held in a pub (well, not at the moment). People coming to the meetup spend money on the pub's beer and pizza. Am i doing free work for a for-profit public house?

friendlybus 6y ago
Yes you are. Social organizers, advertisers, trend setters, ect frequently get free product, kickbacks or some money for their 'work'. That's the work you have done. It's not your intent to do work and it's probably not the pub owners desire to pay for meetup organizers, but regardless of your and the pub owner's intent, work has happened.
- cecilpl2 6y ago
  Is it not possible that the situation is a win-win for all parties and that all parties feel like they are well-compensated in terms of the value they've received, and that therefore no money actually needs to exchange hands? You may as well ask why people volunteer their time at all.
  - friendlybus 6y ago
    Hey I'm not saying money needs to change hands. I'm just pointing out it's work, like in the physics sense. Something valuable has happened, both in the business sense and social sense, but obviously the priority for parent poster is the socializing. Benefitting from socializing is not worth the reddit moderator role is my opinion, under the psychological load they operate in.
  - oarsinsync 6y ago
    Both points are valid I think. It's fair that both parties feel like they're benefiting, so no direct transaction needs to occur. Comparing this to volunteering generally isn't the same. I volunteer with local registered charities because I believe in their mission, and the volunteer work I do is directly impacting and improving the lives of the people I'm working with. Which may be the crux of the GP's question. Why volunteer in the community in a way that results in a for-profit organisation monetising you for their gain, instead of finding a non-profit in your community to be volunteering your time towards? The non-profit / charity in your community's goals are more likely to be aligned with your own, than the for-profit social network.

eganist 6y ago

> What are you getting out of this? For a nontrivial number of people, this community is the only place to turn. If we step away, do people incur harm as a result? Most likely. (in other words, it's almost a psychological obligation of sorts at this point)

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

tsukurimashou 6y ago

this will certainly be unpopular but if they don't get any money out of it then most likely it's an ego / power thing

m-p-3 6y ago

I moderate a sub because if found it useful, I want to make sure it thrives and it's my way of giving back to the community, even if I don't participate as much as some other redditors.