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This looks like a straw man. Automatic collection and transmission of usage data is not what is meant by "giving feedback". Giving feedback is manually opting t

This looks like a straw man. Automatic collection and transmission of usage data is not what is meant by "giving feedback". Giving feedback is manually opting to provide a statement about the experience of using the software. Giving feedback is uncontroversial.

darkwater 6y ago
> Giving feedback is manually opting to provide a statement about the experience of using the software Which almost nobody does, unless they are either completely unsatisfied with the software or completely in love with the software (just like TripAdvisor feedback)
- DeepYogurt 6y ago
  > Which almost nobody does, unless they are either completely unsatisfied with the software or completely in love with the software (just like TripAdvisor feedback) Good point. Better build in a surveillance engine to spy on your users. /s
  - darkwater 6y ago
    If feedback is truly anonymous AND can be opted out anyway - which I know is the OP issue - I don't have any problem with it.
- JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
  At least in the enterprise space, many users won't provide feedback because they feel the product teams won't do anything with the feedback, since someone above your pay grade agreed to pay for the software -- ergo, your opinion does not impact the bottom line.
  - jkaplowitz 6y ago
    In the enterprise space (i.e. Windows 10 Enterprise users), users can fully opt out of Windows 10 telemetry, unlike everyone else but Windows 10 Education users. (Someone asked in the GitHub issue how that tool respects the various control levels over telemetry that Windows 19 offers, but the issue had turned into a shout-fest, so I'm not expecting the rank-and-file MS dev dealing with that issue to want to respond there.)
  - goda90 6y ago
    I work in enterprise software, and I feel like there are two types of feedback. One is end users who provide accurate, actionable feedback on how we can make their job easier, and the other is end users who are mad they have to use software at all. Unfortunately the latter are the ones who complain openly in a way that just makes people angry but gives us, the product teams, no real direction besides writing AI that entirely replaces their job in the end.
- Psyladine 6y ago
  A user giving feedback has already paid for the service in one way or another. You might counter with future services, but that's a function of market share, which is not served by customer satisfaction but by customer convenience. Data mining is about using the customer as product, not improving yours.
- jeroenhd 6y ago
  You're right, there is a negativity bias in reviews. That's mostly because people don't want to spend their free time and effort on making your product better. Hire people specialised in Q&A, send someone over to big customers to observe how people use your product and ask/pay a customer to interview a random selection of the people using the software. Or just stalk your customers. It doesn't require human interaction, it's cheap, and probably not illegal enough to actually get fined. Who cares about the actual opinions of your customers when you can just interpret some carefully selected dashboards, right?
- reaperducer 6y ago
  Which almost nobody does Because they're not asked. There's a reason that gathering feedback from IVR and web sites is a multi-million dollar industry. It asks people, and they respond. There's a sports quote about "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." The tech industry has to learn that it misses out on 100% of the feedback it doesn't ask for.
- nickjj 6y ago
  > Which almost nobody does This seems like an issue with how the product presents that choice or ability to users. For example about half of the people who make it to the end of my video courses write in and give me feedback based on a 7+ question form I ask them to fill out at the end of the course. I ask very specific questions that could likely be answered in 1 minute or less each. Out of thousands of submissions, a huge majority are positive. I don't ask for feedback or anything early on, and do my best to avoid giving someone extra "work" to do. I present it in the form of "hey, I see you made it to the end of the course, your feedback is helpful so that my next course is even better aligned with what you want...". Folks are happy to provide feedback in that case. I'm one of those people who typically turn telemetry off when I can because in a lot of cases it's not clear on how it'll be used unless I read a 100 page TOS or I simply don't trust the company is telling the truth on how it'll be used. I shouldn't feel like I need to diagnose my network traffic with WireShark just to double check a company isn't harvesting usage stats about an app I'm using.

darkwater 6y ago

> Giving feedback is manually opting to provide a statement about the experience of using the software Which almost nobody does, unless they are either completely unsatisfied with the software or completely in love with the software (just like TripAdvisor feedback)

DeepYogurt 6y ago
> Which almost nobody does, unless they are either completely unsatisfied with the software or completely in love with the software (just like TripAdvisor feedback) Good point. Better build in a surveillance engine to spy on your users. /s
- darkwater 6y ago
  If feedback is truly anonymous AND can be opted out anyway - which I know is the OP issue - I don't have any problem with it.
JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
At least in the enterprise space, many users won't provide feedback because they feel the product teams won't do anything with the feedback, since someone above your pay grade agreed to pay for the software -- ergo, your opinion does not impact the bottom line.
- jkaplowitz 6y ago
  In the enterprise space (i.e. Windows 10 Enterprise users), users can fully opt out of Windows 10 telemetry, unlike everyone else but Windows 10 Education users. (Someone asked in the GitHub issue how that tool respects the various control levels over telemetry that Windows 19 offers, but the issue had turned into a shout-fest, so I'm not expecting the rank-and-file MS dev dealing with that issue to want to respond there.)
- goda90 6y ago
  I work in enterprise software, and I feel like there are two types of feedback. One is end users who provide accurate, actionable feedback on how we can make their job easier, and the other is end users who are mad they have to use software at all. Unfortunately the latter are the ones who complain openly in a way that just makes people angry but gives us, the product teams, no real direction besides writing AI that entirely replaces their job in the end.
Psyladine 6y ago
A user giving feedback has already paid for the service in one way or another. You might counter with future services, but that's a function of market share, which is not served by customer satisfaction but by customer convenience. Data mining is about using the customer as product, not improving yours.
jeroenhd 6y ago
You're right, there is a negativity bias in reviews. That's mostly because people don't want to spend their free time and effort on making your product better. Hire people specialised in Q&A, send someone over to big customers to observe how people use your product and ask/pay a customer to interview a random selection of the people using the software. Or just stalk your customers. It doesn't require human interaction, it's cheap, and probably not illegal enough to actually get fined. Who cares about the actual opinions of your customers when you can just interpret some carefully selected dashboards, right?
reaperducer 6y ago
Which almost nobody does Because they're not asked. There's a reason that gathering feedback from IVR and web sites is a multi-million dollar industry. It asks people, and they respond. There's a sports quote about "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." The tech industry has to learn that it misses out on 100% of the feedback it doesn't ask for.
nickjj 6y ago
> Which almost nobody does This seems like an issue with how the product presents that choice or ability to users. For example about half of the people who make it to the end of my video courses write in and give me feedback based on a 7+ question form I ask them to fill out at the end of the course. I ask very specific questions that could likely be answered in 1 minute or less each. Out of thousands of submissions, a huge majority are positive. I don't ask for feedback or anything early on, and do my best to avoid giving someone extra "work" to do. I present it in the form of "hey, I see you made it to the end of the course, your feedback is helpful so that my next course is even better aligned with what you want...". Folks are happy to provide feedback in that case. I'm one of those people who typically turn telemetry off when I can because in a lot of cases it's not clear on how it'll be used unless I read a 100 page TOS or I simply don't trust the company is telling the truth on how it'll be used. I shouldn't feel like I need to diagnose my network traffic with WireShark just to double check a company isn't harvesting usage stats about an app I'm using.