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Oh please. Occasionally running into a rude man? THE HORROR! THE HORROR SPECIFIC TO TECH! I found it interesting that the women didn't just walk out of these s

Oh please. Occasionally running into a rude man? THE HORROR! THE HORROR SPECIFIC TO TECH! I found it interesting that the women didn't just walk out of these situations. Why were they willing to submit themselves to such indignities? Surely they weren't forced to continue pitching. But no... they wanted the money. If you want the money more than you want respect, well, you're not going to get respect. As a woman genuinely in tech -- which, coincidentally, means a lot more than "in search of VC" -- I can say that I've been treated ill by just as many women as men over the years. But when a woman is horrible to you, you don't cry sexism, because well, she's got the same equipment as you do. Also, nobody's interested, because "everyone knows" women are catty, shallow, and wield their social abilities like a weapon. Kind of like how "everyone knows" men are uncultured brutes, who look down on noble, long-suffering women, assume they are dumb, and hit on anything that moves. Please. Fact: some people are shitty. By "people" I mean "of any and all genders, equally." If a person is shitty to you in what seems like a gender-specific way, chances are s/he is shitty to people of a different gender but in a different way. Take it personally and you're just telling yourself a story. But in reality, it's not about you. The way a person treats you is very rarely about you. It's about them. So ignore them and move on with your dignity intact, and stop telling yourself lies. By the way, selling cosmetics -- but being in search of VC -- does not a "woman in tech" make. For the love of god, are your cosmetics web-enabled?

danilocampos 16y ago
> By the way, selling cosmetics -- but being in search of VC -- does not a "woman in tech" make. For the love of god, are your cosmetics web-enabled? Actually, it would appear that their distribution is entirely web-based. That, to my mind, would make them as much a tech company as is Woot, with its non-web-enabled wine, and Amazon circa 1996, with its non-web-enabled books. Diapers.com? $550 million exit, that one. http://www.birchbox.com/ http://www.birchbox.com/
dougws 16y ago
I don't think they're claiming that this problem is specific to "tech"; sexism pretty much pervades our society. And yes, sexism is different and worse than just generic dickery because of the way it exacerbates existing societal problems. Their point is that (contrary to the gut reaction of many of the commenters so far) we as an industry can do better, which would help more women to succeed in the IT world.
Apocryphon 16y ago
But tech is more male-dominated than a lot of other industries. Isn't it?
Rariel 16y ago
"Oh please. Occasionally running into a rude man? " The point was not there is an occasional rude man, the point is that there is a reoccurring theme of inappropriate discrimination based on gender. Of course there are going to be rude men. As you pointed out, there are rude people everywhere. But what if that rude person is only rude in certain situations to a certain type of person--that makes a difference, no? "As a woman genuinely in tech..." I think that is a bit pompous--under your definition is groupon tech? All they do is glorified coupons, not very techy under your standards yet google, a tech company, wanted to acquire them... "Take it personally and you're just telling yourself a story. But in reality, it's not about you. The way a person treats you is very rarely about you. It's about them. So ignore them and move on with your dignity intact, and stop telling yourself lies." Would you tell this to MLK or Harvey Milk? I doubt it. Over simplifying the problem and claiming it's all in these womens' heads isn't going to make it go away.
- ahoyhere 16y ago
  Let's see -- are we actually comparing legal, systematized repression vs a couple dudes being rude dogs? When, if that dude was a boss and not a potential investor, said rude behavior would in fact be illegal? Straw man, my friend. They are nothing alike. I have run into many rude men at bars when attempting to buy drinks. Some have even butted in while I was dancing with another woman. I guess it's time to write an expose entitled "Sexism in the Beer Drinking Industry."
  - Rariel 16y ago
    You are oversimplifying this whole debate. It's not just a couple of "rude dogs," and if I supplied you with several stories of discrimination against women by VCs, etc would you still say it's just a couple of rude dogs? How many would it take for you to believe there is a systematic problem here and not just random men being jerks? Your belief that sexism in tech is not really sexism and just isolated incidents strikes me as very odd. You analogy to men in bars is completely unrelated and completely not analogous. I'm an attorney and a your whole argument about rude behavior being illegal, well, I would like to see that hold up in court. Proving any type of discrimination is very difficult.
erikpukinskis 16y ago
Ugh. I think these comments are incredibly sexist on so many levels. I respect that you hate the "kid gloves" form of feminism, but I think you're going waaaay in the other direction in order to achieve some balance. The part that MOST makes me want to throw up is this: If you want the money more than you want respect, well, you're not going to get respect. Wow. So it's HER fault that she doesn't get respect because she doesn't handle viciously sexist comments properly?
- ahoyhere 16y ago
  Calling someone a "stupid worthless cunt" is viciously sexist. Hitting on someone is not "viciously sexist." Nor is telling someone you intend to hit on them for half an hour, later. Saying you'd like to see someone in your bed is not viciously sexist, it's just terribly unoriginal, right up there with "Is that a mirror in your pocket? Cuz I can see me in your pants." If the behavior is unacceptable, don't accept it. It's that simple. If you want money from someone but don't like the cut of their jib, WALK AWAY. Imagine if you were taking your kids with you to apply for a home loan. You weren't on food stamps or anything - you just wanted a loan. What if the loan officer looked at your kids and said, "What a bunch of ugly little brats. Glad they're not mine." Would you smile and stuff down your feelings and try to take his money anyway? Commit yourself to a working relationship with that guy and earn him a commission? Or would you grab your kids' hands and walk out? If you don't protect yourself, nobody else will. If you don't respect yourself, nobody else will. But seriously, telling somebody you plan to hit on them is tactless and rude, but it is not sexist. It's just dumb.

danilocampos 16y ago

> By the way, selling cosmetics -- but being in search of VC -- does not a "woman in tech" make. For the love of god, are your cosmetics web-enabled? Actually, it would appear that their distribution is entirely web-based. That, to my mind, would make them as much a tech company as is Woot, with its non-web-enabled wine, and Amazon circa 1996, with its non-web-enabled books. Diapers.com? $550 million exit, that one. http://www.birchbox.com/ http://www.birchbox.com/

dougws 16y ago

I don't think they're claiming that this problem is specific to "tech"; sexism pretty much pervades our society. And yes, sexism is different and worse than just generic dickery because of the way it exacerbates existing societal problems. Their point is that (contrary to the gut reaction of many of the commenters so far) we as an industry can do better, which would help more women to succeed in the IT world.

Apocryphon 16y ago

But tech is more male-dominated than a lot of other industries. Isn't it?

Rariel 16y ago

"Oh please. Occasionally running into a rude man? " The point was not there is an occasional rude man, the point is that there is a reoccurring theme of inappropriate discrimination based on gender. Of course there are going to be rude men. As you pointed out, there are rude people everywhere. But what if that rude person is only rude in certain situations to a certain type of person--that makes a difference, no? "As a woman genuinely in tech..." I think that is a bit pompous--under your definition is groupon tech? All they do is glorified coupons, not very techy under your standards yet google, a tech company, wanted to acquire them... "Take it personally and you're just telling yourself a story. But in reality, it's not about you. The way a person treats you is very rarely about you. It's about them. So ignore them and move on with your dignity intact, and stop telling yourself lies." Would you tell this to MLK or Harvey Milk? I doubt it. Over simplifying the problem and claiming it's all in these womens' heads isn't going to make it go away.

ahoyhere 16y ago
Let's see -- are we actually comparing legal, systematized repression vs a couple dudes being rude dogs? When, if that dude was a boss and not a potential investor, said rude behavior would in fact be illegal? Straw man, my friend. They are nothing alike. I have run into many rude men at bars when attempting to buy drinks. Some have even butted in while I was dancing with another woman. I guess it's time to write an expose entitled "Sexism in the Beer Drinking Industry."
- Rariel 16y ago
  You are oversimplifying this whole debate. It's not just a couple of "rude dogs," and if I supplied you with several stories of discrimination against women by VCs, etc would you still say it's just a couple of rude dogs? How many would it take for you to believe there is a systematic problem here and not just random men being jerks? Your belief that sexism in tech is not really sexism and just isolated incidents strikes me as very odd. You analogy to men in bars is completely unrelated and completely not analogous. I'm an attorney and a your whole argument about rude behavior being illegal, well, I would like to see that hold up in court. Proving any type of discrimination is very difficult.

erikpukinskis 16y ago

Ugh. I think these comments are incredibly sexist on so many levels. I respect that you hate the "kid gloves" form of feminism, but I think you're going waaaay in the other direction in order to achieve some balance. The part that MOST makes me want to throw up is this: If you want the money more than you want respect, well, you're not going to get respect. Wow. So it's HER fault that she doesn't get respect because she doesn't handle viciously sexist comments properly?

ahoyhere 16y ago
Calling someone a "stupid worthless cunt" is viciously sexist. Hitting on someone is not "viciously sexist." Nor is telling someone you intend to hit on them for half an hour, later. Saying you'd like to see someone in your bed is not viciously sexist, it's just terribly unoriginal, right up there with "Is that a mirror in your pocket? Cuz I can see me in your pants." If the behavior is unacceptable, don't accept it. It's that simple. If you want money from someone but don't like the cut of their jib, WALK AWAY. Imagine if you were taking your kids with you to apply for a home loan. You weren't on food stamps or anything - you just wanted a loan. What if the loan officer looked at your kids and said, "What a bunch of ugly little brats. Glad they're not mine." Would you smile and stuff down your feelings and try to take his money anyway? Commit yourself to a working relationship with that guy and earn him a commission? Or would you grab your kids' hands and walk out? If you don't protect yourself, nobody else will. If you don't respect yourself, nobody else will. But seriously, telling somebody you plan to hit on them is tactless and rude, but it is not sexist. It's just dumb.