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I haven't said 'find a rich benefactor', but 'be the benefactor'. There is no need to be rich. Spouses stay at home and are not worried if their partner has a

I haven't said 'find a rich benefactor', but 'be the benefactor'. There is no need to be rich. Spouses stay at home and are not worried if their partner has a regular job. It doesn't have to work for everybody. For starters, find somebody who can handle the risk of you losing your job. Of course people are happier if they get rich. But that's not what UBI is about. The question is: do people need a monetary buffer to get on in life and become more profitable so that society benefits as a whole? If that theory is true, then supporting one or two persons will lead to them making more money and being able to support one or two persons in return by themselves. That's a system that can grow, if UBI works. So, whoever believes in UBI: start supporting one person, and see what will happen.

sokoloff 6y ago
Anyone who is contemplating durably changing their life predicated on the receipt of basic income is in the situation of “find a benefactor”.
- renewiltord 6y ago
  Sure, but by flipping the direction, you can just pick an arbitrary person, set up a trust fund that only disburses a certain amount and set this person up for life. If you have 10 people, each contribute $100k, that's a $1 million fund. Fund a person in Nebraska for life with the fund for $36k a year with an annual rate of return of 4% (fairly conservative). That person is guaranteed the durable benefactor and you can see if their behaviour changes and if they are enhanced through this.
hobs 6y ago
You mean like children? Children need you to support them for years as a buffer before they can get on with life. Society benefits as a whole when we foster the development of proper adults. If the development to making them a net contributor is not done yet, why would we stop?
- mydongle 6y ago
  Hey, that's angle I've never thought about before. We support children for years and all we expect them to do is go to school. While a lot of kids could decide to just not work and be taken care of by their family, the vast majority want to work anyway, if only for the fact they want to move out and build their own family. This may be the key. UBI + Making people go through further education so that they can have the foundation of knowledge and skills to be able to work. Right now, we have a lot of people who go through years of school and in the end it amounts to nothing because no one will give them a real job unless they had the money and a stable environment that allowed them to go to fancy universities instead of being forced to work to provide for themselves. This is a 3 angle attack. UBI + education/training + lowering the barrier for people being able to get a job. With UBI, you will have substantially less people desperate to get any job, so the supply of workers is no longer so high that companies can afford to be picky, because people will be able to tell those companies to go fuck themselves.
  - wyre 6y ago
    UBI+further education sounds like a great idea. After graduating people won't be stressed about finding a job to help pay for their mounds of student loan debt and will have the knowledge to work on projects that they find meaningful.
    - mydongle 6y ago
      That's right. People hear about UBI and lament how people are going to become lazy and quit working, but they don't ask themselves why some people would stop working. They don't think that maybe some jobs are not worth doing unless you are at the threat of poverty and homelessness from not working. We need to reevaluate if we want to continue this horrible system where a class of people are denigrated to working slave tier jobs with poor wages and working conditions so that the classes above them can enjoy their first world lives.

sokoloff 6y ago

Anyone who is contemplating durably changing their life predicated on the receipt of basic income is in the situation of “find a benefactor”.

renewiltord 6y ago
Sure, but by flipping the direction, you can just pick an arbitrary person, set up a trust fund that only disburses a certain amount and set this person up for life. If you have 10 people, each contribute $100k, that's a $1 million fund. Fund a person in Nebraska for life with the fund for $36k a year with an annual rate of return of 4% (fairly conservative). That person is guaranteed the durable benefactor and you can see if their behaviour changes and if they are enhanced through this.

hobs 6y ago

You mean like children? Children need you to support them for years as a buffer before they can get on with life. Society benefits as a whole when we foster the development of proper adults. If the development to making them a net contributor is not done yet, why would we stop?

mydongle 6y ago
Hey, that's angle I've never thought about before. We support children for years and all we expect them to do is go to school. While a lot of kids could decide to just not work and be taken care of by their family, the vast majority want to work anyway, if only for the fact they want to move out and build their own family. This may be the key. UBI + Making people go through further education so that they can have the foundation of knowledge and skills to be able to work. Right now, we have a lot of people who go through years of school and in the end it amounts to nothing because no one will give them a real job unless they had the money and a stable environment that allowed them to go to fancy universities instead of being forced to work to provide for themselves. This is a 3 angle attack. UBI + education/training + lowering the barrier for people being able to get a job. With UBI, you will have substantially less people desperate to get any job, so the supply of workers is no longer so high that companies can afford to be picky, because people will be able to tell those companies to go fuck themselves.
- wyre 6y ago
  UBI+further education sounds like a great idea. After graduating people won't be stressed about finding a job to help pay for their mounds of student loan debt and will have the knowledge to work on projects that they find meaningful.
  - mydongle 6y ago
    That's right. People hear about UBI and lament how people are going to become lazy and quit working, but they don't ask themselves why some people would stop working. They don't think that maybe some jobs are not worth doing unless you are at the threat of poverty and homelessness from not working. We need to reevaluate if we want to continue this horrible system where a class of people are denigrated to working slave tier jobs with poor wages and working conditions so that the classes above them can enjoy their first world lives.