7 ms·

It's not quite so clear. The data collection policy linked in the comment (that can be controlled in settings) distinguishes between required and optional data

It's not quite so clear. The data collection policy linked in the comment (that can be controlled in settings) distinguishes between required and optional data collection. It's possible to disable optional data collection, but not required data collection. Here's one of the elements that is required (and so it cannot be disabled): Information about your device, its settings and capabilities, including applications and drivers installed on your device I find that quite obtrusive.

Voloskaya 6y ago
The required telemetry is already gathered by windows 10 though. My point is to say that if you disable the optional telemtry in W10, then presumably winget doesn't collect anything. So while I agree with you that the required telemetry is obtrusive, it's not new and it's not related to winget.
- ccmcarey 6y ago
  This project collects usage data and sends it to Microsoft to help improve our products and services It's this type of broad data collection disclaimer that I find lacking in modern products. Usage data? It's not clear what that is, or what exactly is being recorded, and what is sent that is required, and what is sent that is optional.
  - lonelappde 6y ago
    This is an impossible problem. If they underdeclare, they invite a lawsuit. If they overdeclare, they get accused of malfeasance they aren't even doing. If they open the whole business to transparency, they become victims of commerical espionage and expose their users' data to invasion.
    - rrobukef 6y ago
      How often have you seen the words: "Including but not limited to ..."? This is not an impossible problem.
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      How about just providing a link to an actual payload (with example data)? And within the installed application, providing the ability to review all the data that was recorded and set?
      - bradford 6y ago
        Windows lets you view the data that is being gathered on your machine, this would include the package manager: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy/diagnostic-data-viewer-overview https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy/diagnostic-... MS adheres to GDPR export/delete requirements. Failure to adhere risks litigation so it's not something that MS is just going to willy-nilly flaunt. It's frustrating reading a lot of comments that are of the form "Why doesn't MS just do XYZ?" from individuals who don't seem to know that MS is already doing that. [disclaimer, MS employee]
        TeMPOraL 6y ago
        Thanks. I guess this is just Cunningham's law in action. https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law
        ptx 6y ago
        Why doesn't MS just stop forcibly collecting data from my machine? Is it just that I don't know that they're already stopping?
        bradford 6y ago
        The parent comment that I replied to was asking about transparency and I tried my best to answer. > Why doesn't MS just stop forcibly collecting data from my machine? Updates. At the minimum data collection level for client SKU (set via user settings), MS asserts that only data needed to keep the machine running and secure is collected (i.e, updates). They really do try hard to honor this assert, although I understand I'm not going to be able to entirely eliminate skepticism. You can argue that you should be allowed to disable telemetry for updates, but I think that's a different conversation. MS didn't want Windows reputation to suffer due to undeployed fixes (this was a big problem prior to win8), and they took a hard line on the updates. Enterprise SKUs have a zero exhaust option (no telemetry), but alas, it's not free.
    - tjoff 6y ago
      It is not hard to specify what you are collecting. If that is such a big task maybe not doing it in the first place is the reasonable thing to do.
- monadic2 6y ago
  > The required telemetry is already gathered by windows 10 though. Wait, what? What broadcasts from my computer after I disable telemetry?
  - hendersoon 6y ago
    You can't disable telemetry on Windows Home or Enterprise in any supported way. You can either hack through multiple registry and task manager entries or use a third-party program. I suggest Shutup10. https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
    - justinclift 6y ago
      Any idea if there are Open Source equivalents?
  - ccmcarey 6y ago
    A large amount of data. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4468236/diagnostics-feedback-and-privacy-in-windows-10-microsoft-privacy https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4468236/diagnostics... Required telemetry (that cannot be disabled): * Basic error information to help determine whether problems your device is experiencing can be addressed by the update process. * Information about your device, its settings and capabilities, including applications and drivers installed on your device, to ascertain whether your device is ready for and compatible with the next operating system or app release and ready for update. * Logging information from the update process itself to understand how well your device’s updates are proceeding through the stages of downloading, pre-installation, post-installation, post-reboot, and setup. * Data about the performance of updates on all Windows devices to assess the success of an update’s deployment and to learn device characteristics (e.g., hardware, peripherals, settings, and applications) that are associated with the success or failure of an update. * Data about which devices have had upgrade failures and why to determine whether to offer the same upgrade again. The most egregious of that list is, imo, this: * Information about your device, its settings and capabilities, including applications and drivers installed on your device

Voloskaya 6y ago

The required telemetry is already gathered by windows 10 though. My point is to say that if you disable the optional telemtry in W10, then presumably winget doesn't collect anything. So while I agree with you that the required telemetry is obtrusive, it's not new and it's not related to winget.

ccmcarey 6y ago
This project collects usage data and sends it to Microsoft to help improve our products and services It's this type of broad data collection disclaimer that I find lacking in modern products. Usage data? It's not clear what that is, or what exactly is being recorded, and what is sent that is required, and what is sent that is optional.
- lonelappde 6y ago
  This is an impossible problem. If they underdeclare, they invite a lawsuit. If they overdeclare, they get accused of malfeasance they aren't even doing. If they open the whole business to transparency, they become victims of commerical espionage and expose their users' data to invasion.
  - rrobukef 6y ago
    How often have you seen the words: "Including but not limited to ..."? This is not an impossible problem.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    How about just providing a link to an actual payload (with example data)? And within the installed application, providing the ability to review all the data that was recorded and set?
    - bradford 6y ago
      Windows lets you view the data that is being gathered on your machine, this would include the package manager: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy/diagnostic-data-viewer-overview https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy/diagnostic-... MS adheres to GDPR export/delete requirements. Failure to adhere risks litigation so it's not something that MS is just going to willy-nilly flaunt. It's frustrating reading a lot of comments that are of the form "Why doesn't MS just do XYZ?" from individuals who don't seem to know that MS is already doing that. [disclaimer, MS employee]
      - TeMPOraL 6y ago
        Thanks. I guess this is just Cunningham's law in action. https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law
      - ptx 6y ago
        Why doesn't MS just stop forcibly collecting data from my machine? Is it just that I don't know that they're already stopping?
        bradford 6y ago
        The parent comment that I replied to was asking about transparency and I tried my best to answer. > Why doesn't MS just stop forcibly collecting data from my machine? Updates. At the minimum data collection level for client SKU (set via user settings), MS asserts that only data needed to keep the machine running and secure is collected (i.e, updates). They really do try hard to honor this assert, although I understand I'm not going to be able to entirely eliminate skepticism. You can argue that you should be allowed to disable telemetry for updates, but I think that's a different conversation. MS didn't want Windows reputation to suffer due to undeployed fixes (this was a big problem prior to win8), and they took a hard line on the updates. Enterprise SKUs have a zero exhaust option (no telemetry), but alas, it's not free.
  - tjoff 6y ago
    It is not hard to specify what you are collecting. If that is such a big task maybe not doing it in the first place is the reasonable thing to do.
monadic2 6y ago
> The required telemetry is already gathered by windows 10 though. Wait, what? What broadcasts from my computer after I disable telemetry?
- hendersoon 6y ago
  You can't disable telemetry on Windows Home or Enterprise in any supported way. You can either hack through multiple registry and task manager entries or use a third-party program. I suggest Shutup10. https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
  - justinclift 6y ago
    Any idea if there are Open Source equivalents?
- ccmcarey 6y ago
  A large amount of data. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4468236/diagnostics-feedback-and-privacy-in-windows-10-microsoft-privacy https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4468236/diagnostics... Required telemetry (that cannot be disabled): * Basic error information to help determine whether problems your device is experiencing can be addressed by the update process. * Information about your device, its settings and capabilities, including applications and drivers installed on your device, to ascertain whether your device is ready for and compatible with the next operating system or app release and ready for update. * Logging information from the update process itself to understand how well your device’s updates are proceeding through the stages of downloading, pre-installation, post-installation, post-reboot, and setup. * Data about the performance of updates on all Windows devices to assess the success of an update’s deployment and to learn device characteristics (e.g., hardware, peripherals, settings, and applications) that are associated with the success or failure of an update. * Data about which devices have had upgrade failures and why to determine whether to offer the same upgrade again. The most egregious of that list is, imo, this: * Information about your device, its settings and capabilities, including applications and drivers installed on your device