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Musicians don't become musicians to make money. The vast majority of all active musicians don't make any real money at it. They do it because they enjoy it. If

Musicians don't become musicians to make money. The vast majority of all active musicians don't make any real money at it. They do it because they enjoy it. If music was where the money was, we'd be discussing chord progressions, not data structures on this board. :)

Tycho 16y ago
The vast majority of active musicians don't make any memorable original music whatsoever. Sure, we'll have lots of good performers always, that won't change, but what popular music needs is huge numbers of relatively unskilled 'musicians' taking a stab at songwriting. That happens because there's money in the game. Otherwise we'd just be left with a dull cottage industry.
- lukifer 16y ago
  There needs to be money, but there's nothing saying it has to be big money. I'd happily take ten Jonathan Coultons over one Bon Jovi.
  - Tycho 16y ago
    The more money there is, the more people will take a crack at it. It's sort of like the App Store and the explosion of great indie apps.
- notahacker 16y ago
  You're arguing that the music industry will be worse for lack of people with no discernible talent or even interest in music becoming songwriters for pecuniary reward. Seriously?
  - Tycho 16y ago
    Yes, absolutely. What discernible talent did John Lennon have when he got involved with the industry? There is no level of training or 'talent' that has ever reliably led to great songwriting. Nobody has a formula for great songs, it's not like programming where one a great hacker = always a great hacker, able to get the job done. It's all just shots in the dark. You can already see as the money falls out of hip hop that it's dying out and fewer young rappers are appearing.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
    - notahacker 16y ago
      When John Lennon was writing songs in his skiffle band as a teenager recording artists generally didn't make much money. He wrote songs because he wanted to make music other people listened to, not because he anticipated the unprecedented financial rewards of Beatlemania. Now I'm sure that a lot of the artists and supporting people behind the X Factor, American Idol etc also genuinely love music, but ultimately they're franchises organised by music industry insiders to help artists get famous and their backers get rich. Half the time they don't even bother to employ songwriters; covers of existing songs sell well too. You see, I agree there's no formula for great songs, but there's certainly a formula for making large amounts of money successful hit records, and that's at best orthogonal to great original songwriting. I'm not going to ask whether you think the armies of songwriters, producers, choreographers and session musicians lured by the dollars of Cowell et al. have managed to match the creative output of one Liverpudlian lad.

Tycho 16y ago

The vast majority of active musicians don't make any memorable original music whatsoever. Sure, we'll have lots of good performers always, that won't change, but what popular music needs is huge numbers of relatively unskilled 'musicians' taking a stab at songwriting. That happens because there's money in the game. Otherwise we'd just be left with a dull cottage industry.

lukifer 16y ago
There needs to be money, but there's nothing saying it has to be big money. I'd happily take ten Jonathan Coultons over one Bon Jovi.
- Tycho 16y ago
  The more money there is, the more people will take a crack at it. It's sort of like the App Store and the explosion of great indie apps.
notahacker 16y ago
You're arguing that the music industry will be worse for lack of people with no discernible talent or even interest in music becoming songwriters for pecuniary reward. Seriously?
- Tycho 16y ago
  Yes, absolutely. What discernible talent did John Lennon have when he got involved with the industry? There is no level of training or 'talent' that has ever reliably led to great songwriting. Nobody has a formula for great songs, it's not like programming where one a great hacker = always a great hacker, able to get the job done. It's all just shots in the dark. You can already see as the money falls out of hip hop that it's dying out and fewer young rappers are appearing.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - notahacker 16y ago
    When John Lennon was writing songs in his skiffle band as a teenager recording artists generally didn't make much money. He wrote songs because he wanted to make music other people listened to, not because he anticipated the unprecedented financial rewards of Beatlemania. Now I'm sure that a lot of the artists and supporting people behind the X Factor, American Idol etc also genuinely love music, but ultimately they're franchises organised by music industry insiders to help artists get famous and their backers get rich. Half the time they don't even bother to employ songwriters; covers of existing songs sell well too. You see, I agree there's no formula for great songs, but there's certainly a formula for making large amounts of money successful hit records, and that's at best orthogonal to great original songwriting. I'm not going to ask whether you think the armies of songwriters, producers, choreographers and session musicians lured by the dollars of Cowell et al. have managed to match the creative output of one Liverpudlian lad.