6 ms·

I recently installed an Insider build of Windows so I could use WSL2 to run some docker containers in a Linux environment. The insider build requires that you

by nperez 6y ago

I recently installed an Insider build of Windows so I could use WSL2 to run some docker containers in a Linux environment. The insider build requires that you enable full telemetry which includes sending your visited websites to MS. I need WSL2 so I’m just avoiding doing anything private on my personal computer for now. I understand why the data is useful to them but I don’t think they understand or care why this is an important issue to others

Voloskaya 6y ago
On the other hand, an insider build is a beta, the only purpose of this is specifically to be able to get telemetry to detect issues before releasing.
- dr-detroit 6y ago
  Every complaint about microsoft on hackernews comes from some teen whose never heard of Windows Enterprise and has no idea what they're complaining about.
- techntoke 6y ago
  How does logging websites you visit help Linux? Windows 10 2004 is already RTM. I've never understood why Microsoft hides their ISO images. It's like they want people to install a version of their OS with a bunch of manufacturer spyware or missing multiple major updates which take hours to install and leaves a bunch of files/directories behind.
  - joombaga 6y ago
    Maybe I'm missing the point, but you can download ISOs with the media creation tool.
    - vetinari 6y ago
      If you want to download ISO, you must pretend you are not Windows. Otherwise, it will redirect you to the media creation tool, that will download bunch of files that it wants to hide from you and insist on creating a media for you.
    - techntoke 6y ago
      Media Creation tool doesn't download the ISO with CU updates. It downloads one that is about a year old and then once you run Windows Updates, it has about a years worth of updates to install (if not more). The point was that Windows 10 2004 is RTM but you have to be a MSDN subscriber to download it, or find some shady Russian website to get it from.
      - jedieaston 6y ago
        Last time I tried, changing your user agent to Safari (OS X) or Firefox (Linux) made the media creation page redirect to a link to download the ISOs. I suppose if you had WSL installed and an X server you could bring up a browser in there, or you could use lynx :P.
      - vetinari 6y ago
        AFAIK 2004 is supposed to be released next week, 28th. It is not yet available on partner download site either.
        techntoke 6y ago
        It is available on MSDN.
        vetinari 6y ago
        OK. It's not on MPN yet.
- monadic2 6y ago
  > the only purpose of this is specifically to be able to get telemetry to detect issues before releasing. They could just ask for feedback, which is what I naïvely considered the "insider" build for—obviously Microsoft is just spying on you for some reason.
  - thawaway1837 6y ago
    Right, because people are gonna provide core dumps in their feedback. Again, if you don’t want telemetry, don’t use the build Microsoft uses specifically to collect telemetry. Don’t complain that the build MS uses only for telemetry requires you to provide telemetry.
    - monadic2 6y ago
      > Right, because people are gonna provide core dumps in their feedback. Not my problem. Sounds like a problem for a company with a QA team.
      - Voloskaya 6y ago
        I don't think there is a problem at all actually. Insider build is very clearly targetting people that are ok with potential bug and instability and that are ok providing telemetry to Microsoft so they can improve stability. You are not one of those people, and thus shouldn't use it.
        hedora 6y ago
        Microsoft famously fired their QA team, and outsourced the work to paying customers.
  - Shorel 6y ago
    That will highlight the pet peeves of a small group of users because of self-selection bias.
  - colejohnson66 6y ago
OberstKrueger 6y ago
> I need WSL2 so I’m just avoiding doing anything private on my personal computer for now. This is madness. It's hard to consider a machine your "personal computer" if you're afraid of doing anything personal on it.
- lonelappde 6y ago
  Then don't join a beta test of softwaree as part of a collaboration with a 3rd party business? "Personal computer" means one person per computer, vs a mainframe. It's not a privacy statement.
  - ghostpepper 6y ago
    This is actually not how I understand the origins of the phrase. Before the PC, all computers were owned by large corporations and governments, and the PC was seen as a way to take back that control. See also: Apple's famous 1984 ad.
- p410n3 6y ago
  Well its the insider build. The normal build doesn't require that
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  This is just a taste of what it means to have Operating System as a Service. Which is where Microsoft is apparently heading.
  - thejynxed 6y ago
    Windows as a Service has been their stated goal since prior to the release of Vista. Nadella has opted to go full speed ahead, with everything from Office to the versions of Windows running on the Surface & Xbox being entirely SaaS. I'm just waiting for the "You must subscribe" hammer to fall for Windows in general.
thawaway1837 6y ago
The whole point of an insider build is to collect telemetry.
thesuperbigfrog 6y ago
Food for thought: Who really owns your computer then? Is it you or is it Microsoft? https://youtu.be/dKmkcadmIu8?t=58 https://youtu.be/dKmkcadmIu8?t=58
squarefoot 6y ago
> I need WSL2 Actually you need Linux, not WSL2. That's the way Microsoft is slowly, sneakily, furtively, planting the idea that their Linux is the real thing, which is absolutely not. This approach is much much much worse than Ballmer yelling that Linux is cancer, because there is no evident hate, no apparent will to destroy the competition which would raise warnings in the community. It is just Microsoft becoming smarter, then absorbing the technology up to the point it will become one of their products -and associated services-. It's Microsoft PR 2.0 and sadly... yes, it will succeed.
- bzb3 6y ago
  He might need Windows AND the WSL2.
- holtalanm 6y ago
  WSL2 IS linux though. There was definitely an argument to be made that WSL1 wasn't linux, but WSL2 is full linux within a virtual machine on windows. I don't know how you can claim that is not the 'real thing' when it definitely is.
  - thesuperbigfrog 6y ago
    Linux can be run without Microsoft telemetry. Op was saying that he/she could not run WSL2 without Microsoft telemetry. So, yes WSL2 includes Linux plus Microsoft telemetry. Parent was saying that Op actually wants Linux, since Op wants Linux functionality, but not Microsoft telemetry.
    - holtalanm 6y ago
      I was more addressing the second part of the parent comment, which stated that WSL2 wasn't true linux.
      - squarefoot 6y ago
        It is not true Linux in spirit because it forces the user to live with telemetry and other closed source software and drivers, which defeats the purpose Linux itself was built upon. Not just that. Privacy, trustworthiness and security aside, let's imagine Microsoft porting (or simply making WSL-aware) some of their software, libraries, system internals hooks, anything that Linux users wanted for ages, gaming libraries etc.), to WSL and not Linux, that is, they require WSL but won't run on Linux, or will run "better" on WSL, or possibly will run on Linux but require some closed or prohibitively licensed code to (properly) run. Those surely are bleak scenarios, but corporations are there to make profits, and forcing Linux users to require a Microsoft branded layer of software is without any doubt a way to keep them hooked to Windows, which for some will turn into buying products and services from Microsoft, and for others into finding less and less software that will run on plain Linux. I wouldn't be surprised at all if say in two years more books will be published about WSL than about Linux. That would hurt as well since it would mean less courses, less schools adopting Linux, in plain words less users.
2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
Opt into full telemetry. Install WSL2. Opt out. Delete diagnostic data. They make you send full diagnostic data because WSL2 is only in the Windows Preview program.
blibble 6y ago
since MS switched on the personal data vaccuum with Windows 10: I dumped all but one of my physical Windows machines the remaining one is used for Win32 app dev/debugging, however it's on a separate VLAN, with a separate external IP address I think it's really quite sad that you have to adopt military style separate PCs&networks if you don't want your data harvested

by nperez 6y ago

Voloskaya 6y ago

On the other hand, an insider build is a beta, the only purpose of this is specifically to be able to get telemetry to detect issues before releasing.

dr-detroit 6y ago
Every complaint about microsoft on hackernews comes from some teen whose never heard of Windows Enterprise and has no idea what they're complaining about.
techntoke 6y ago
How does logging websites you visit help Linux? Windows 10 2004 is already RTM. I've never understood why Microsoft hides their ISO images. It's like they want people to install a version of their OS with a bunch of manufacturer spyware or missing multiple major updates which take hours to install and leaves a bunch of files/directories behind.
- joombaga 6y ago
  Maybe I'm missing the point, but you can download ISOs with the media creation tool.
  - vetinari 6y ago
    If you want to download ISO, you must pretend you are not Windows. Otherwise, it will redirect you to the media creation tool, that will download bunch of files that it wants to hide from you and insist on creating a media for you.
  - techntoke 6y ago
    Media Creation tool doesn't download the ISO with CU updates. It downloads one that is about a year old and then once you run Windows Updates, it has about a years worth of updates to install (if not more). The point was that Windows 10 2004 is RTM but you have to be a MSDN subscriber to download it, or find some shady Russian website to get it from.
    - jedieaston 6y ago
      Last time I tried, changing your user agent to Safari (OS X) or Firefox (Linux) made the media creation page redirect to a link to download the ISOs. I suppose if you had WSL installed and an X server you could bring up a browser in there, or you could use lynx :P.
    - vetinari 6y ago
      AFAIK 2004 is supposed to be released next week, 28th. It is not yet available on partner download site either.
      - techntoke 6y ago
        It is available on MSDN.
        vetinari 6y ago
        OK. It's not on MPN yet.
monadic2 6y ago
> the only purpose of this is specifically to be able to get telemetry to detect issues before releasing. They could just ask for feedback, which is what I naïvely considered the "insider" build for—obviously Microsoft is just spying on you for some reason.
- thawaway1837 6y ago
  Right, because people are gonna provide core dumps in their feedback. Again, if you don’t want telemetry, don’t use the build Microsoft uses specifically to collect telemetry. Don’t complain that the build MS uses only for telemetry requires you to provide telemetry.
  - monadic2 6y ago
    > Right, because people are gonna provide core dumps in their feedback. Not my problem. Sounds like a problem for a company with a QA team.
    - Voloskaya 6y ago
      I don't think there is a problem at all actually. Insider build is very clearly targetting people that are ok with potential bug and instability and that are ok providing telemetry to Microsoft so they can improve stability. You are not one of those people, and thus shouldn't use it.
      - hedora 6y ago
        Microsoft famously fired their QA team, and outsourced the work to paying customers.
- Shorel 6y ago
  That will highlight the pet peeves of a small group of users because of self-selection bias.
- colejohnson66 6y ago

OberstKrueger 6y ago

> I need WSL2 so I’m just avoiding doing anything private on my personal computer for now. This is madness. It's hard to consider a machine your "personal computer" if you're afraid of doing anything personal on it.

lonelappde 6y ago
Then don't join a beta test of softwaree as part of a collaboration with a 3rd party business? "Personal computer" means one person per computer, vs a mainframe. It's not a privacy statement.
- ghostpepper 6y ago
  This is actually not how I understand the origins of the phrase. Before the PC, all computers were owned by large corporations and governments, and the PC was seen as a way to take back that control. See also: Apple's famous 1984 ad.
p410n3 6y ago
Well its the insider build. The normal build doesn't require that
TeMPOraL 6y ago
This is just a taste of what it means to have Operating System as a Service. Which is where Microsoft is apparently heading.
- thejynxed 6y ago
  Windows as a Service has been their stated goal since prior to the release of Vista. Nadella has opted to go full speed ahead, with everything from Office to the versions of Windows running on the Surface & Xbox being entirely SaaS. I'm just waiting for the "You must subscribe" hammer to fall for Windows in general.

thawaway1837 6y ago

The whole point of an insider build is to collect telemetry.

thesuperbigfrog 6y ago

Food for thought: Who really owns your computer then? Is it you or is it Microsoft? https://youtu.be/dKmkcadmIu8?t=58 https://youtu.be/dKmkcadmIu8?t=58

squarefoot 6y ago

> I need WSL2 Actually you need Linux, not WSL2. That's the way Microsoft is slowly, sneakily, furtively, planting the idea that their Linux is the real thing, which is absolutely not. This approach is much much much worse than Ballmer yelling that Linux is cancer, because there is no evident hate, no apparent will to destroy the competition which would raise warnings in the community. It is just Microsoft becoming smarter, then absorbing the technology up to the point it will become one of their products -and associated services-. It's Microsoft PR 2.0 and sadly... yes, it will succeed.

bzb3 6y ago
He might need Windows AND the WSL2.
holtalanm 6y ago
WSL2 IS linux though. There was definitely an argument to be made that WSL1 wasn't linux, but WSL2 is full linux within a virtual machine on windows. I don't know how you can claim that is not the 'real thing' when it definitely is.
- thesuperbigfrog 6y ago
  Linux can be run without Microsoft telemetry. Op was saying that he/she could not run WSL2 without Microsoft telemetry. So, yes WSL2 includes Linux plus Microsoft telemetry. Parent was saying that Op actually wants Linux, since Op wants Linux functionality, but not Microsoft telemetry.
  - holtalanm 6y ago
    I was more addressing the second part of the parent comment, which stated that WSL2 wasn't true linux.
    - squarefoot 6y ago
      It is not true Linux in spirit because it forces the user to live with telemetry and other closed source software and drivers, which defeats the purpose Linux itself was built upon. Not just that. Privacy, trustworthiness and security aside, let's imagine Microsoft porting (or simply making WSL-aware) some of their software, libraries, system internals hooks, anything that Linux users wanted for ages, gaming libraries etc.), to WSL and not Linux, that is, they require WSL but won't run on Linux, or will run "better" on WSL, or possibly will run on Linux but require some closed or prohibitively licensed code to (properly) run. Those surely are bleak scenarios, but corporations are there to make profits, and forcing Linux users to require a Microsoft branded layer of software is without any doubt a way to keep them hooked to Windows, which for some will turn into buying products and services from Microsoft, and for others into finding less and less software that will run on plain Linux. I wouldn't be surprised at all if say in two years more books will be published about WSL than about Linux. That would hurt as well since it would mean less courses, less schools adopting Linux, in plain words less users.

2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago

Opt into full telemetry. Install WSL2. Opt out. Delete diagnostic data. They make you send full diagnostic data because WSL2 is only in the Windows Preview program.

blibble 6y ago

since MS switched on the personal data vaccuum with Windows 10: I dumped all but one of my physical Windows machines the remaining one is used for Win32 app dev/debugging, however it's on a separate VLAN, with a separate external IP address I think it's really quite sad that you have to adopt military style separate PCs&networks if you don't want your data harvested