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Recent update is a huge leap forward, but still, no one understands, why they have to save/remember 3 passwords. Only my closest family would listen me explain

Recent update is a huge leap forward, but still, no one understands, why they have to save/remember 3 passwords. Only my closest family would listen me explaining that there's encryption but there's also authentication, yet only because I force that info upon them while standing over their shoulder, making sure they write down all the recovery keys. Select few graduated to password managers and know to back the bases up. It's a struggle, mainly because I'm the only one who cares in this particular social circle, and thus people don't see my concerns as normal.

Arathorn 6y ago
There aren't three passwords; there are two: an account password and a recovery passphrase/key. It's the same as (say) macOS - where you have a login password to get into your computer, and a recovery key for FileVault in case of disasters. However, the feedback is overwhelmingly that we need to iterate on the recovery passphrase - either making it a generated key (like macOS does), or going the whole hog and replacing the login password entirely with the cryptographic recovery one. Turns out the UX on this stuff is tough.
- fluffything 6y ago
  I'm used to a single pw system, where on account creation the system generates a recovery key, that I can save or not.
  - cyphar 6y ago
    That is what's actually happening behind the scenes (though note that the "recovery key" is actually incredibly important since it gives you access to your key backups -- which is something you absolutely want to enable if you're an ordinary user). The problem is that by default Matrix tries to back the "recovery key" up to the homeserver you're using, encrypted with a second passphrase -- hence why you get two passphrases. You can opt-out of it, but I think the UX is the wrong way around -- it should be an opt-in thing and that would make it clearer that the recovery key is what's important and that the passphrase is only needed if you want to upload it to your homeserver. There is an open issue on this topic[1]. [1]: https://github.com/vector-im/riot-web/issues/8751 https://github.com/vector-im/riot-web/issues/8751

Arathorn 6y ago

There aren't three passwords; there are two: an account password and a recovery passphrase/key. It's the same as (say) macOS - where you have a login password to get into your computer, and a recovery key for FileVault in case of disasters. However, the feedback is overwhelmingly that we need to iterate on the recovery passphrase - either making it a generated key (like macOS does), or going the whole hog and replacing the login password entirely with the cryptographic recovery one. Turns out the UX on this stuff is tough.

fluffything 6y ago
I'm used to a single pw system, where on account creation the system generates a recovery key, that I can save or not.
- cyphar 6y ago
  That is what's actually happening behind the scenes (though note that the "recovery key" is actually incredibly important since it gives you access to your key backups -- which is something you absolutely want to enable if you're an ordinary user). The problem is that by default Matrix tries to back the "recovery key" up to the homeserver you're using, encrypted with a second passphrase -- hence why you get two passphrases. You can opt-out of it, but I think the UX is the wrong way around -- it should be an opt-in thing and that would make it clearer that the recovery key is what's important and that the passphrase is only needed if you want to upload it to your homeserver. There is an open issue on this topic[1]. [1]: https://github.com/vector-im/riot-web/issues/8751 https://github.com/vector-im/riot-web/issues/8751