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I am starting to wonder whether we should split the web into "document mode" with only small subset of javascript APIs and "application mode". This could actua

by ximm 6y ago

I am starting to wonder whether we should split the web into "document mode" with only small subset of javascript APIs and "application mode". This could actually spark some innovation because the threshold to build a document-web-browser from scratch would be so much lower and it could have much better security.

lecarore 6y ago
I browse the web with js off by default, and turn it on per domain in 2 clicks. That's basically what you are proposing accessible today, with Firefox, on desktop and on Android
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  Aside: I turn off JS and never allow it on outside a VM (which gets wiped back to a clean state on shutdown). It's definitely not the same thing because a lot of documents simply do not render (here's one I was looking at not 2 minutes ago, at least it has text, but no pics https://vanschneider.com/the-kawaiization-of-product-design https://vanschneider.com/the-kawaiization-of-product-design A Number of sites will render absolutely nothing at all, text or otherwise eg https://www.washingtonpost.com https://www.washingtonpost.com). Nope, he's got a good suggestion IMO.
throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
Oh hell yes, I'm all for this. Though with the proviso of NO javasccript for document mode at all. I think this is a great idea.
eitland 6y ago
Daniel Janus had written about it here: http://blog.danieljanus.pl/2019/10/07/web-of-documents/ http://blog.danieljanus.pl/2019/10/07/web-of-documents/ I am fairly certain I have written about it as well, here or on my blog somewhere. My ideas are a bit more pragmatic maybe: I hope Mozilla or someone else will make a html version of asm.js - an extremely performant renderer for a subset of html and css. This could solve the bootstrapping dilemma since it would work in every other browser as well - only hopefully even faster in browsers that supports it - and make real headway in as little as a few years while working from day 1. My suggestions: - a meta field in the header indicating html document - a free validation service - if a document signals it is a modern document, send it down the fast path - if the document doesn't follow the rules, restart with ordinary rules - js is forbidden except for a number of vetted common libraries for things like autocomplete
DJHenk 6y ago
> the threshold to build a document-web-browser from scratch would be so much lower Wouldn't it be easier to just clone the normal Firefox/Chromium and strip everything out that is not needed? You wouldn't even have to do it all at once. Just turn things of and rip the code out/refactor later.

by ximm 6y ago

lecarore 6y ago

I browse the web with js off by default, and turn it on per domain in 2 clicks. That's basically what you are proposing accessible today, with Firefox, on desktop and on Android

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
Aside: I turn off JS and never allow it on outside a VM (which gets wiped back to a clean state on shutdown). It's definitely not the same thing because a lot of documents simply do not render (here's one I was looking at not 2 minutes ago, at least it has text, but no pics https://vanschneider.com/the-kawaiization-of-product-design https://vanschneider.com/the-kawaiization-of-product-design A Number of sites will render absolutely nothing at all, text or otherwise eg https://www.washingtonpost.com https://www.washingtonpost.com). Nope, he's got a good suggestion IMO.

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago

Oh hell yes, I'm all for this. Though with the proviso of NO javasccript for document mode at all. I think this is a great idea.

eitland 6y ago

Daniel Janus had written about it here: http://blog.danieljanus.pl/2019/10/07/web-of-documents/ http://blog.danieljanus.pl/2019/10/07/web-of-documents/ I am fairly certain I have written about it as well, here or on my blog somewhere. My ideas are a bit more pragmatic maybe: I hope Mozilla or someone else will make a html version of asm.js - an extremely performant renderer for a subset of html and css. This could solve the bootstrapping dilemma since it would work in every other browser as well - only hopefully even faster in browsers that supports it - and make real headway in as little as a few years while working from day 1. My suggestions: - a meta field in the header indicating html document - a free validation service - if a document signals it is a modern document, send it down the fast path - if the document doesn't follow the rules, restart with ordinary rules - js is forbidden except for a number of vetted common libraries for things like autocomplete

DJHenk 6y ago

> the threshold to build a document-web-browser from scratch would be so much lower Wouldn't it be easier to just clone the normal Firefox/Chromium and strip everything out that is not needed? You wouldn't even have to do it all at once. Just turn things of and rip the code out/refactor later.