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> I can advocate for the Christian worldview I realize it's off topic, but hopefully that's OK---I think we might be able to have an interesting conversation o

• foolinaround 6y ago
  this is a very fair question, that I too, raised as a Christian did struggle with, and then found reasons to have the opposite reaction that you did - the evidence is there- all around us, and this explanation of faith might explain it? https://www.rzim.org/read/a-slice-of-infinity/faith-trust-and-evidence-3 https://www.rzim.org/read/a-slice-of-infinity/faith-trust-an... Consider looking at other resources about RZIM, whose goal is to 'make the thinker believe and the believer think'.
  • javert 6y ago
    That article uses a lot of fluff language to say that, for the author, faith is based on believing accounts of the resurrection. In other words, taking peoples' word for it. Definitely not a novel idea (not that it needs to be). I think this may be one of the more interesting and less common arguments for Christianity. Is that your position?
    • foolinaround 6y ago
      My faith is based on both evidence(as in accounts of the resurrection, among, many many others) as also based on personal experience (both tangible and otherwise) C.S Lewis is a great writer from the turn of the century, whose books you might consider. Do you know that there is a lot more proof in the biblical accounts than in many other historical events - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/14/what-is-the-historical-evidence-that-jesus-christ-lived-and-died https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/14/what-is-the-hi... -- My personal take? There is enough evidence in the physical world - that if you look, can make you a believer at best, or a doubting agnostic at worst. It is however the personal experiences that solidify the faith. -- Depending on where you are in life, some events (current) might hit a nerve. For me, it was a persecution that made question the social fabric, and yet in the midst of it, were some crazy guys - who were willing to martyr themselves? Why? - that search led me to rediscover Christ, though a Christian myself. It took a while, but I would also say, it is not we who seek God, in our case, it is God who relentlessly pursues us.
      • javert 6y ago
        When you say a "doubting agnostic," I guess you mean "agnostic but doubting it, i.e., maybe there is a God." a) I really like the Narnia books. I tried once to read one of C.S. Lewis's apologetics books (can't remember which now), but gave up very quickly, because the writing style seemed highly disingenuous. I didn't sense much potential in his work to have a strong, rational argument that someone not already committed to faith would accept. Maybe I should try again, more carefully. Is he the best apologist you can recommend, or is there someone else? b) What is the evidence in the physical world that you are talking about? I take it that this is in addition to "word of mouth" across the centuries. I'm not aware of any such (additional) evidence. I think Jesus was a historical person---there is enough evidence for that. But that doesn't prove the religious claims. Undoubtedly you would agree that there have been many false prophets (e.g., Zoroastrian prophets, to try to pick something not likely to offend or be controversial). c) Would the evidence you point to be enough to convince you to believe in Christianity, or is "personal experience" necessary to bridge the gap? If it's the latter, what kind of personal experience is it? In the interest of full disclosure, I just want to understand what makes religious people believe what they do. I'm not even remotely open to accepting religion, myself.
        • foolinaround 6y ago
          >Is he the best apologist you can recommend, or is there someone else? Take your pick from here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_apologetics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_apologetics Some come more heavily from science like Francis Collins, some from theology like Sproul, from philosophy like Craig, pick your poison. the one thing you need to do however, is to give the benefit of the doubt - because it really comes down to splitting of hairs. Once you are able to grasp their arguments and its basis, then you can see if you agree with it. -- the bible itself is a set of writings over the ages - with its dates proven as a fact. Within it, we see historical events that were foretold come to pass. Maybe you might want to look at the bible from a fresh perspective ( from a Hebrew lens ) - [1] would give you a deeper understanding of the history, culture, reasons behind some of what appears to be crazy etc. At the very least, you will leave with a deeper understanding of that culture etc. -- the next question you might have is 'why do I need to trust this literature' It has to be divinely inspired. Written at a time when the worldview did not know the ends of the earth and people believed that one would fall off, the bible stated ( in Isaiah ) that the earth is a circle; people thought it allegorical till they found out it was; just 1 example. -- About the Hebrew language itself -- it too was not man-made. One example, in hebrew, the words that are variants of the same letters have related meanings -- so the words for 'ear' and 'balance' were almost the same and no one had a clue why -- till they found out last century, that balance is tied to the ear. ( i am just giving you small examples ). There are tons such out there waiting to be studied. -- > I just want to understand what makes religious people believe what they do. I'm not even remotely open to accepting religion Just be careful as you may get more than you bargain for! I myself, was on a quest towards getting more rooted in atheism that I started studying books and debates, and then found about apologetics ( I was not exposed since i was born a christian and lived a nominal christian life). I turned out to experience the faith and now I am in a dialogue with you. In the interest of full disclosure, I would love for you to accept Christ but am humbled and also comforted that it is not me who can do it, it is only you with God's leading. I share my experiences hoping that something on my journey can help you in yours. This journey has made me live life with a purpose and am much joyful than before ( even though I have lost some things along the way) -- [1] https://torahclass.com/teacher/author/tom-bradford/old-testament-studies/old-testament-studies-genesis https://torahclass.com/teacher/author/tom-bradford/old-testa...