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That’s great for you. I’m sure you can agree that there are many that do not share your view. Just wait until they harvest organs from somebody and their family

That’s great for you. I’m sure you can agree that there are many that do not share your view. Just wait until they harvest organs from somebody and their family throws a fit on religious or other grounds.

jlebar 6y ago
Can we agree that people will be harmed on both sides of this? Like, if organ donation is the default, at the very best, it's extra work for people who want not to donate their organs after death. OTOH if organ donation is not the default, dramatically fewer organs are available to people in need, and many of them will die. How are we supposed to weigh these competing harms?
- tom_ 6y ago
  A tricky moral conundrum indeed - but I suspect we'll muddle through somehow.
tyre 6y ago
With regards to consent, this is the same as any other law. You consent by remaining a citizen. Does every (any?) citizen know all of the laws? No, but it's part of the deal if your parents were citizens. If you want to leave the country, you may renounce your citizenship upon becoming an adult.
- jschwartzi 6y ago
  This pretty snidely disregards how difficult it is to emigrate anywhere else with a similar standard of living. De facto you are stuck in the country of your birth, barring some extraordinary effort on your part over the course of months to years.
- exolymph 6y ago
  > You consent by remaining a citizen. Uh, no, you can't opt out of being governed altogether. This is why libertarianism is a thing — the state is a categorically different kind of entity due to the monopoly on violence. Tax compliance is ultimately enforced at gunpoint, just like every other law, and that's why it really fucking matters to get the laws right. Haven't we been over this?
- wedkwew 6y ago
  No, you don't "consent" by remaining a citizen,. At best you endure. > If you want to leave the country, you may renounce your citizenship upon becoming an adult. You are being very generous, and indeed this is one of the last remaining freedoms we have that people in the eastern block did not. Where to go though if all countries compete in becoming the most oppressive one?
walshemj 6y ago
Or one of those "religious" families father needs a transplant, in the UK BAME donors are much rarer.
Goz3rr 6y ago
You didn't even bother reading until the third paragraph did you? > Your family will still be approached and your faith, beliefs and culture will continue to be respected.
ken 6y ago
From their FAQ: "All major religions and belief systems are open to the principles of organ donation" ... "We've worked with faith leaders and communities to build trust, raise awareness, explore questions around organ and tissue donation, and discuss how organ donation can proceed in line with faith or beliefs." From the sound of it, I'm not sure what more they could have done. Are there many people in England who disagree with all major religions on this point?
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  There aren't authoritative "faith leaders" for decentralized religions like Hinduism or Buddhism. What's happened here is that a likely-Caucasian lawmaker has selectively picked out interpretations of scriptures and quotes from individuals that favor this policy, propped them up as evidence of support from all major religions, and tried to get ahead of criticism with a thinly-disguised PR play.

jlebar 6y ago

Can we agree that people will be harmed on both sides of this? Like, if organ donation is the default, at the very best, it's extra work for people who want not to donate their organs after death. OTOH if organ donation is not the default, dramatically fewer organs are available to people in need, and many of them will die. How are we supposed to weigh these competing harms?

tom_ 6y ago
A tricky moral conundrum indeed - but I suspect we'll muddle through somehow.

tyre 6y ago

With regards to consent, this is the same as any other law. You consent by remaining a citizen. Does every (any?) citizen know all of the laws? No, but it's part of the deal if your parents were citizens. If you want to leave the country, you may renounce your citizenship upon becoming an adult.

jschwartzi 6y ago
This pretty snidely disregards how difficult it is to emigrate anywhere else with a similar standard of living. De facto you are stuck in the country of your birth, barring some extraordinary effort on your part over the course of months to years.
exolymph 6y ago
> You consent by remaining a citizen. Uh, no, you can't opt out of being governed altogether. This is why libertarianism is a thing — the state is a categorically different kind of entity due to the monopoly on violence. Tax compliance is ultimately enforced at gunpoint, just like every other law, and that's why it really fucking matters to get the laws right. Haven't we been over this?
wedkwew 6y ago
No, you don't "consent" by remaining a citizen,. At best you endure. > If you want to leave the country, you may renounce your citizenship upon becoming an adult. You are being very generous, and indeed this is one of the last remaining freedoms we have that people in the eastern block did not. Where to go though if all countries compete in becoming the most oppressive one?

walshemj 6y ago

Or one of those "religious" families father needs a transplant, in the UK BAME donors are much rarer.

Goz3rr 6y ago

You didn't even bother reading until the third paragraph did you? > Your family will still be approached and your faith, beliefs and culture will continue to be respected.

ken 6y ago

From their FAQ: "All major religions and belief systems are open to the principles of organ donation" ... "We've worked with faith leaders and communities to build trust, raise awareness, explore questions around organ and tissue donation, and discuss how organ donation can proceed in line with faith or beliefs." From the sound of it, I'm not sure what more they could have done. Are there many people in England who disagree with all major religions on this point?

throwawaysea 6y ago
There aren't authoritative "faith leaders" for decentralized religions like Hinduism or Buddhism. What's happened here is that a likely-Caucasian lawmaker has selectively picked out interpretations of scriptures and quotes from individuals that favor this policy, propped them up as evidence of support from all major religions, and tried to get ahead of criticism with a thinly-disguised PR play.