3 ms·

Interesting, 26 year old me was willing to have children some day, 31 year old me was contemplating maybe having kids some day when he gets bored with life, 36

by sershe 6y ago

Interesting, 26 year old me was willing to have children some day, 31 year old me was contemplating maybe having kids some day when he gets bored with life, 36 year old me never wants children, is married to someone who never wants children, had a vasectomy, and is still kinda afraid it will fail and he might end up with a kid. The longer I live and look around the more I realize how annoying and life-ruining kids would be for me. And, while there may be many couples that are happier with kids, the ones that stick out for me are (also many) that either visibly have worse QoL, less happy marriages, etc., and the ones that visibly have stockholm syndrome.

GoodJokes 6y ago
I have lost many friends to kids. Either we change child rearing to more of a community responsibility or having a kid is basically a type of social death for a very long time. Unless you are loaded like lots of people on hackernews and can afford some cushy childcare.
brnt 6y ago
Wow, that is so me. Couldn't wait to get kids in university, just didn't have a partner to do it with. When I met my partner, our lives were not stable enough to support kids in a monetary and emotional sense. Not that we are, I'm mid thirties, see the lack of sleep of friends that do have kids and seriously doubt whether it is worth it. Somehow I feel we've designed the way we do careers to oppose certain natural processes. I'm not even female, I can't imagine how much uphill the battle is for them.
- deleted 6y ago
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RestlessMind 6y ago
Interestingly, my experience is exactly opposite. Most of my friends started having kids in late 20's / early 30's and every single one of them is incredibly happy to have them; in fact, some even lament that they didn't have kids sooner.
- sershe 6y ago
  Well, most might indeed be, but for some, 3 factors I can think of are that... 1) the QoL/unhappy people I notice are mostly due to financial situation - if your friends are all in tech it won't apply; or the fact that one of the parents switched their focus completely onto children and neglects their spouse (and it's not always the wife) 2) you may not know some of them closely enough or see them in regular life. It's not socially acceptable to regret having children or admit it sucks, by word or action. 3) Many are obvious cases of stockholm syndrome. The most obvious example (rare, but imo symptomatic for everyone) is when people say they are blessed to experience having a child with severe disability. I always want to ask (but never will), would you have wished for such a blessing before the kid was born, if given a choice? I could believe someone who says it sucks in many ways but worth it, but when someone claims to feel "blessed" in these circumstances... sure, suit yourself :) A less obvious one is when people tell you it's great and there are no downsides. Again I can believe people who say they are happy despite the tradeoffs, but sometimes people tell you there basically no downsides to kids; and 3 minutes before/after will tell you how they would like to pick up their abandoned hobbies, how their health is deteriorating due to lack of exercise, they cannot work from home due to distractions, haven't had time for sex in 3 months, haven't slept properly in 3 weeks, ... but there are no downsides!
  - RestlessMind 6y ago
    Thanks for your response. Agree with your first point - all my friends are in tech with decent incomes. Disagree about people claiming there are no downsides - people I've seen generally accept the "cost" of kids (monetary, physical, personal etc). But the benefits of kids seem to be outweighing these costs. I agree with you that it is not socially acceptable to regret having kids, so some of them might be lying. Only speaking for myself, I am pretty happy. And lastly, there is another factor to add to your analysis - the culture. Almost all my friends are immigrants to the US, coming from countries with much higher birth rates and very different attitudes about family or having kids.
  - Spooky23 6y ago
    > Many are obvious cases of stockholm syndrome. The most obvious example (rare, but imo symptomatic for everyone) is when people say they are blessed to experience having a child with severe disability. I always want to ask (but never will), would you have wished for such a blessing before the kid was born, if given a choice? I could believe someone who says it sucks in many ways but worth it, but when someone claims to feel "blessed" in these circumstances... sure, suit yourself :) Obviously no parent would wish for a child to be born with a disability. A less cynical and self-centered take on the situation might be that the love and ability to nuture and help that child with challenges has meaningful, unexpected rewards. > A less obvious one is when people tell you it's great and there are no downsides. Again I can believe people who say they are happy despite the tradeoffs, but sometimes people tell you there basically no downsides to kids; and 3 minutes before/after will tell you how they would like to pick up their abandoned hobbies, how their health is deteriorating due to lack of exercise, they cannot work from home due to distractions, haven't had time for sex in 3 months, haven't slept properly in 3 weeks, ... but there are no downsides! You're attributing this to kids. People don't just drop all hobbies, stop taking care of themselves, stop having sex or sleeping because a child shows up. If that all happens, it reflects a level of immaturity and lack of planning that would cause a problem in the face of any adversity.

by sershe 6y ago

GoodJokes 6y ago

I have lost many friends to kids. Either we change child rearing to more of a community responsibility or having a kid is basically a type of social death for a very long time. Unless you are loaded like lots of people on hackernews and can afford some cushy childcare.

brnt 6y ago

Wow, that is so me. Couldn't wait to get kids in university, just didn't have a partner to do it with. When I met my partner, our lives were not stable enough to support kids in a monetary and emotional sense. Not that we are, I'm mid thirties, see the lack of sleep of friends that do have kids and seriously doubt whether it is worth it. Somehow I feel we've designed the way we do careers to oppose certain natural processes. I'm not even female, I can't imagine how much uphill the battle is for them.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

RestlessMind 6y ago

Interestingly, my experience is exactly opposite. Most of my friends started having kids in late 20's / early 30's and every single one of them is incredibly happy to have them; in fact, some even lament that they didn't have kids sooner.

sershe 6y ago
Well, most might indeed be, but for some, 3 factors I can think of are that... 1) the QoL/unhappy people I notice are mostly due to financial situation - if your friends are all in tech it won't apply; or the fact that one of the parents switched their focus completely onto children and neglects their spouse (and it's not always the wife) 2) you may not know some of them closely enough or see them in regular life. It's not socially acceptable to regret having children or admit it sucks, by word or action. 3) Many are obvious cases of stockholm syndrome. The most obvious example (rare, but imo symptomatic for everyone) is when people say they are blessed to experience having a child with severe disability. I always want to ask (but never will), would you have wished for such a blessing before the kid was born, if given a choice? I could believe someone who says it sucks in many ways but worth it, but when someone claims to feel "blessed" in these circumstances... sure, suit yourself :) A less obvious one is when people tell you it's great and there are no downsides. Again I can believe people who say they are happy despite the tradeoffs, but sometimes people tell you there basically no downsides to kids; and 3 minutes before/after will tell you how they would like to pick up their abandoned hobbies, how their health is deteriorating due to lack of exercise, they cannot work from home due to distractions, haven't had time for sex in 3 months, haven't slept properly in 3 weeks, ... but there are no downsides!
- RestlessMind 6y ago
  Thanks for your response. Agree with your first point - all my friends are in tech with decent incomes. Disagree about people claiming there are no downsides - people I've seen generally accept the "cost" of kids (monetary, physical, personal etc). But the benefits of kids seem to be outweighing these costs. I agree with you that it is not socially acceptable to regret having kids, so some of them might be lying. Only speaking for myself, I am pretty happy. And lastly, there is another factor to add to your analysis - the culture. Almost all my friends are immigrants to the US, coming from countries with much higher birth rates and very different attitudes about family or having kids.
- Spooky23 6y ago
  > Many are obvious cases of stockholm syndrome. The most obvious example (rare, but imo symptomatic for everyone) is when people say they are blessed to experience having a child with severe disability. I always want to ask (but never will), would you have wished for such a blessing before the kid was born, if given a choice? I could believe someone who says it sucks in many ways but worth it, but when someone claims to feel "blessed" in these circumstances... sure, suit yourself :) Obviously no parent would wish for a child to be born with a disability. A less cynical and self-centered take on the situation might be that the love and ability to nuture and help that child with challenges has meaningful, unexpected rewards. > A less obvious one is when people tell you it's great and there are no downsides. Again I can believe people who say they are happy despite the tradeoffs, but sometimes people tell you there basically no downsides to kids; and 3 minutes before/after will tell you how they would like to pick up their abandoned hobbies, how their health is deteriorating due to lack of exercise, they cannot work from home due to distractions, haven't had time for sex in 3 months, haven't slept properly in 3 weeks, ... but there are no downsides! You're attributing this to kids. People don't just drop all hobbies, stop taking care of themselves, stop having sex or sleeping because a child shows up. If that all happens, it reflects a level of immaturity and lack of planning that would cause a problem in the face of any adversity.