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I met a guy at NewSpace several years ago and we were talking about the role of the US military in space exploration. I was expressing my wariness of a militari

I met a guy at NewSpace several years ago and we were talking about the role of the US military in space exploration. I was expressing my wariness of a militarized space force, the possibility of us ending up under a military junta, etc, but he was less worried. He kept making the point that mercenaries were the norm in the past and that the US military actually has an incredible record for never seizing control. He chalked it up to the fact that our military traditions and honor are deeply intertwined with civilian rule, and didn't think our soldiers would easily abandon that.

jeffreyrogers 6y ago
The US military has only been around for 250 years and look at how much the country has changed in that time. The idea of the welfare state would be totally incomprehensible to the founders[0]. I think the idea of the military as separate from the rest of the state is contingent on that state operating in the interests of the people. Or at least, not against the interests of the people. And history shows that no society has been able to do this forever. [0]: I'm not saying we shouldn't have a welfare state, it's clearly necessary in the modern world, but the America of today is nothing like the America that was intended, for better or for worse.
- NotSammyHagar 6y ago
  I see you weren't meaning to focus on welfare state by your edit. The US is different than revolutionary times in many ways, perhaps more significantly in women's rights, slavery, prisons, illegality of many actions. I think the whole idea of the US being the world's most powerful country and acting outside our borders would have been something the founders would have struggled with, because they fought a war to get away from the world's most powerful country.
- karatestomp 6y ago
  > The US military has only been around for 250 years And a permanent, standing, large, and fairly dysfunctional (look at descriptions of military leadership and its civilian oversight in WWII and earlier, then look at same in Vietnam, then look at the linked Afghanistan Papers documents in this thread re: same in Iraq and Afghanistan) US military is even newer, only 80ish years. Even more recent if you consider its modern form to have taken shape only after the Vietnam draft ended.
alasdair_ 6y ago
> the US military actually has an incredible record for never seizing control. I wonder if the civil war counts here.
- throwaway2048 6y ago
  The US military was very much opposed to the confederate succession, so much so that they refused to hand over union/federal property, which started the civil war to begin with. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Sumter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Sumter
- eloisius 6y ago
  This is a good point. After the conclusion of the war, 10 former Confederate states were placed under military rule. However, I believe that happened under the command of civilian leaders. Whether or not they had legitimate authority to do so is a different debate, but I don't think it was the military acting of its own accord.

jeffreyrogers 6y ago

The US military has only been around for 250 years and look at how much the country has changed in that time. The idea of the welfare state would be totally incomprehensible to the founders[0]. I think the idea of the military as separate from the rest of the state is contingent on that state operating in the interests of the people. Or at least, not against the interests of the people. And history shows that no society has been able to do this forever. [0]: I'm not saying we shouldn't have a welfare state, it's clearly necessary in the modern world, but the America of today is nothing like the America that was intended, for better or for worse.

NotSammyHagar 6y ago
I see you weren't meaning to focus on welfare state by your edit. The US is different than revolutionary times in many ways, perhaps more significantly in women's rights, slavery, prisons, illegality of many actions. I think the whole idea of the US being the world's most powerful country and acting outside our borders would have been something the founders would have struggled with, because they fought a war to get away from the world's most powerful country.
karatestomp 6y ago
> The US military has only been around for 250 years And a permanent, standing, large, and fairly dysfunctional (look at descriptions of military leadership and its civilian oversight in WWII and earlier, then look at same in Vietnam, then look at the linked Afghanistan Papers documents in this thread re: same in Iraq and Afghanistan) US military is even newer, only 80ish years. Even more recent if you consider its modern form to have taken shape only after the Vietnam draft ended.

alasdair_ 6y ago

> the US military actually has an incredible record for never seizing control. I wonder if the civil war counts here.

throwaway2048 6y ago
The US military was very much opposed to the confederate succession, so much so that they refused to hand over union/federal property, which started the civil war to begin with. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Sumter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Sumter
eloisius 6y ago
This is a good point. After the conclusion of the war, 10 former Confederate states were placed under military rule. However, I believe that happened under the command of civilian leaders. Whether or not they had legitimate authority to do so is a different debate, but I don't think it was the military acting of its own accord.