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Meanwhile we put 5-6 year olds in kindergarten classrooms with UV-blocking windows all day, for about 9 months during the part of the year with the least sunlig

Meanwhile we put 5-6 year olds in kindergarten classrooms with UV-blocking windows all day, for about 9 months during the part of the year with the least sunlight available, and we've cut recess time down to almost nothing, and schools increasingly don't send kids outside if the weather's anything other than perfect. At my kids' school they don't even have indoor recess if they keep them in! They just watch a damn movie. WTF. Of course there was some stupid educational fad that led them to remove all the toys from lower-grade classrooms to make room for "learning centers" (I gather this has happened more or less state-wide), so I guess if the gym's not available they can't really do indoor recess anyway, not that it helps their eyesight either way. And this is a very highly-ranked school for our state. 1.5 hours of recess daily minimum or bust for 3rd grade and under, I say, and I think that's not quite enough, really. Screw this 30 minutes crap. Know how I can guarantee my kids have behavior problems at home? Coop them up inside all day. Know how I make a day run smoothly? Make sure they're outside running around at least a couple hours while the sun's up. Then consider that they're giving a bunch of them nearsightedness on top of definitely creating behavioral and learning problems. It's crazy.

ajmurmann 6y ago
I think it's all a side effect of the treadmill that society is putting everyone on. Between globalization and automation there are fewer good jobs that more people are competing for. Either you end up with what used to be a lot of money or way too little. Till you "made it" you are constantly at risk at slipping off the treadmill and into the "way too little" group. Especially in the US. May this be reality or not, it's the experienced reality for many. We feel so much pressure to give our kids a head start which results in this rat race starting earlier and harder. I think this is just collateral damage from that shit going wrong. I'm so glad I was a kid in the 80s when playing outside was still normal.
- karatestomp 6y ago
  We let ours play outside plenty, and there are quite a few other kids out. Does seem to be neighborhood-dependent, though, all kinda have their own culture. Our current one's less free-range than the last, which had big ol' gangs of kids with large age-ranges roaming around, and was great. We are fairly worried about 1) eventually having some kind of encounter with child protective services—which will likely end up fine, if it happens, but will also probably be really inconvenient and stressful—and 2) injuries that end up giving us yet another opportunity to play everyone's favorite game, Medical Billing Roulette, especially now that they're riding bikes. Multiple kids, just a matter of time until one of them get a hospital trip out of a bad fall. Odds very low they'll all make it to 18 without at least one broken bone. God damn do I wish we'd fix healthcare in the US. It's crazy how much background stress & anxiety that causes across just about all activities and choices. And that's with insurance. [EDIT] although I'm pretty sure the "playing outside" thing tapers off around tween/teen ages in a way it didn't for us, when they all start living on social media. :-/
  - nmfisher 6y ago
    > Odds very low they'll all make it to 18 without at least one broken bone. I consider broken bones to be an integral part of childhood. Well, for boys anyway. If you make it to 18 without a broken bone, you probably should have spent more time outside.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      I haven’t broken any bones. My parents were up and coming immigrants with their own business, but not successful enough to afford health insurance (pre ACA, but not post ACA either), and there weren’t poor enough for Medicaid. So my dad was clear to me that any injuries could cause us to have medical expenses that would derail us and my younger sibling’s future as well as the aging grandparents my parents were taking care of. So I didn’t partake in activities that could have broken bones, but that is the hand my parents and I and others like us are dealt in the great old US of A.
      - nmfisher 6y ago
        And don't you think that's a horrible situation to be in? It's completely foreign to me that there exists a first-world country where you need to bar your child from certain activities solely due to concerns over potential medical costs. That's not a criticism of your parents - their decision was completely logical in the circumstances. It's just a fundamental flaw in the US system.
        lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Of course it’s a bad situation. Just explaining why some kids may not have had broken bones. If you’re not in the upper class or extremely poor class in the US, there is no safety net, so if you want any chance of clawing your way up to having the various securities of life, you have to play it safe.
    - craigching 6y ago
      I’m sure you’re making a general statement, but breaking a bone is pretty traumatic and the complications can be quite serious. I hope my kids never experience a broken bone. That said, I spent my childhood outside and never broke a bone myself, but my brother did and ended up having to wear orthotics the rest of his life and routinely experiences discomfort as a result. So, my advice, don’t limit your kids, but teach them to be careful at the same time. I’m pretty sure if one of my kids break a bone, I’m going to be a wreck. EDIT: Your comment about boys breaking bones more than girls is ridiculous, as a parent with a daughter who loves risk taking, I can assure you it’s not a boy vs girl problem.
- darepublic 6y ago
  I guess but I feel like the schooling they get is largely bogus anyhow especially in elementary school and nothing I couldn't fix by just tutoring them a bit at home
thaumasiotes 6y ago
> Then consider that they're giving a bunch of them nearsightedness on top of If it's any consolation, the drawbacks of myopia are fairly negligible. This is one reason there's not a lot of effort expended to prevent it.
- jakear 6y ago
  I actually enjoy it. I’m at a point where I could get laser correction, but I’ve found that I value being able to remove my glasses and quite literally de-focus too much.
Gustomaximus 6y ago
I also dont like how people put sunscreen on the kids almost every time they go out. I live in Australia, so you absolutely do want to protect your skin, but heading to the park for an hour doesn't need sunscreen every time. 2 generations ago it was common to literally lie in the sun for hours putting coconut oil on your skin to increase tanning. And yes they did have higher skin cancer rates but there is a fair gap between that and not doing it + a long sleeve shirt/hat. Im trying to move to a screen free Sunday to encourage more outdoors/interaction but screens are so ingrained in our lives now its not popular.
- originalbryan2 6y ago
  I'm not sure what to think about that. I live in CO and people here that don't sunscreen are so much more damaged than others I know in different states. It's drastically obvious. So I sunscreen my kids like crazy. I keep thinking that I'm at least giving their adult selves the option to look 50 at age 35 if they decide to quit using sunscreen religiously. Unsure if this is the best approach. Their doctor loves it though.
  - prawn 6y ago
    I'm in Australia and have an annual skin check. The doctor advises adults to use a moisturiser with sunscreen component as a daily default, especially anyone with fair hair. My wife tends to do this. The doctor has mentioned in the past that 60+ year old males who've worked farms or building sites their entire lives have a 35%+ strike rate on finding a cancerous mole when they come in for a check.
- nmfisher 6y ago
  > I also dont like how people put sunscreen on the kids almost every time they go out. I live in Australia, so you absolutely do want to protect your skin, but heading to the park for an hour doesn't need sunscreen every time. I'm making an effort to get at least 15 minutes of direct sunlight every day, but at the same time, I make sure to put sunscreen on my face/neck every time I go out. Modern attire is the problem. Our clothes cover everything but the face, hands and neck, so when we try and increase sunlight exposure, we get huge doses concentrated on these areas. Ideally, I'd be sunning shirtless and with shorts that cover as little as legally possible. It's a much more sensible approach to boosting Vitamin D levels without risking skin cancer on the face/hands/neck/ears. Nebulous concepts of "social acceptability" be damned.

ajmurmann 6y ago

I think it's all a side effect of the treadmill that society is putting everyone on. Between globalization and automation there are fewer good jobs that more people are competing for. Either you end up with what used to be a lot of money or way too little. Till you "made it" you are constantly at risk at slipping off the treadmill and into the "way too little" group. Especially in the US. May this be reality or not, it's the experienced reality for many. We feel so much pressure to give our kids a head start which results in this rat race starting earlier and harder. I think this is just collateral damage from that shit going wrong. I'm so glad I was a kid in the 80s when playing outside was still normal.

karatestomp 6y ago
We let ours play outside plenty, and there are quite a few other kids out. Does seem to be neighborhood-dependent, though, all kinda have their own culture. Our current one's less free-range than the last, which had big ol' gangs of kids with large age-ranges roaming around, and was great. We are fairly worried about 1) eventually having some kind of encounter with child protective services—which will likely end up fine, if it happens, but will also probably be really inconvenient and stressful—and 2) injuries that end up giving us yet another opportunity to play everyone's favorite game, Medical Billing Roulette, especially now that they're riding bikes. Multiple kids, just a matter of time until one of them get a hospital trip out of a bad fall. Odds very low they'll all make it to 18 without at least one broken bone. God damn do I wish we'd fix healthcare in the US. It's crazy how much background stress & anxiety that causes across just about all activities and choices. And that's with insurance. [EDIT] although I'm pretty sure the "playing outside" thing tapers off around tween/teen ages in a way it didn't for us, when they all start living on social media. :-/
- nmfisher 6y ago
  > Odds very low they'll all make it to 18 without at least one broken bone. I consider broken bones to be an integral part of childhood. Well, for boys anyway. If you make it to 18 without a broken bone, you probably should have spent more time outside.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    I haven’t broken any bones. My parents were up and coming immigrants with their own business, but not successful enough to afford health insurance (pre ACA, but not post ACA either), and there weren’t poor enough for Medicaid. So my dad was clear to me that any injuries could cause us to have medical expenses that would derail us and my younger sibling’s future as well as the aging grandparents my parents were taking care of. So I didn’t partake in activities that could have broken bones, but that is the hand my parents and I and others like us are dealt in the great old US of A.
    - nmfisher 6y ago
      And don't you think that's a horrible situation to be in? It's completely foreign to me that there exists a first-world country where you need to bar your child from certain activities solely due to concerns over potential medical costs. That's not a criticism of your parents - their decision was completely logical in the circumstances. It's just a fundamental flaw in the US system.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Of course it’s a bad situation. Just explaining why some kids may not have had broken bones. If you’re not in the upper class or extremely poor class in the US, there is no safety net, so if you want any chance of clawing your way up to having the various securities of life, you have to play it safe.
  - craigching 6y ago
    I’m sure you’re making a general statement, but breaking a bone is pretty traumatic and the complications can be quite serious. I hope my kids never experience a broken bone. That said, I spent my childhood outside and never broke a bone myself, but my brother did and ended up having to wear orthotics the rest of his life and routinely experiences discomfort as a result. So, my advice, don’t limit your kids, but teach them to be careful at the same time. I’m pretty sure if one of my kids break a bone, I’m going to be a wreck. EDIT: Your comment about boys breaking bones more than girls is ridiculous, as a parent with a daughter who loves risk taking, I can assure you it’s not a boy vs girl problem.
darepublic 6y ago
I guess but I feel like the schooling they get is largely bogus anyhow especially in elementary school and nothing I couldn't fix by just tutoring them a bit at home

thaumasiotes 6y ago

> Then consider that they're giving a bunch of them nearsightedness on top of If it's any consolation, the drawbacks of myopia are fairly negligible. This is one reason there's not a lot of effort expended to prevent it.

jakear 6y ago
I actually enjoy it. I’m at a point where I could get laser correction, but I’ve found that I value being able to remove my glasses and quite literally de-focus too much.

Gustomaximus 6y ago

I also dont like how people put sunscreen on the kids almost every time they go out. I live in Australia, so you absolutely do want to protect your skin, but heading to the park for an hour doesn't need sunscreen every time. 2 generations ago it was common to literally lie in the sun for hours putting coconut oil on your skin to increase tanning. And yes they did have higher skin cancer rates but there is a fair gap between that and not doing it + a long sleeve shirt/hat. Im trying to move to a screen free Sunday to encourage more outdoors/interaction but screens are so ingrained in our lives now its not popular.

originalbryan2 6y ago
I'm not sure what to think about that. I live in CO and people here that don't sunscreen are so much more damaged than others I know in different states. It's drastically obvious. So I sunscreen my kids like crazy. I keep thinking that I'm at least giving their adult selves the option to look 50 at age 35 if they decide to quit using sunscreen religiously. Unsure if this is the best approach. Their doctor loves it though.
- prawn 6y ago
  I'm in Australia and have an annual skin check. The doctor advises adults to use a moisturiser with sunscreen component as a daily default, especially anyone with fair hair. My wife tends to do this. The doctor has mentioned in the past that 60+ year old males who've worked farms or building sites their entire lives have a 35%+ strike rate on finding a cancerous mole when they come in for a check.
nmfisher 6y ago
> I also dont like how people put sunscreen on the kids almost every time they go out. I live in Australia, so you absolutely do want to protect your skin, but heading to the park for an hour doesn't need sunscreen every time. I'm making an effort to get at least 15 minutes of direct sunlight every day, but at the same time, I make sure to put sunscreen on my face/neck every time I go out. Modern attire is the problem. Our clothes cover everything but the face, hands and neck, so when we try and increase sunlight exposure, we get huge doses concentrated on these areas. Ideally, I'd be sunning shirtless and with shorts that cover as little as legally possible. It's a much more sensible approach to boosting Vitamin D levels without risking skin cancer on the face/hands/neck/ears. Nebulous concepts of "social acceptability" be damned.