8 ms·

"If children get outside enough, it doesn't matter how much they study they do. They don't become myopic," said Ian Morgan, researcher at Australian National Un

by ipnon 6y ago

"If children get outside enough, it doesn't matter how much they study they do. They don't become myopic," said Ian Morgan, researcher at Australian National University.[0] "Researchers say kids and teens need to get sunlight during the critical years of their development while their eyeballs are still growing. "The mechanics of how sunlight protects their eyes are not clearly understood. One theory suggests that sunlight triggers the release of dopamine in the retina; another speculates that blue light from the sun protects from the condition. "The solution is simple. Have kids "spend more time outside, have less demands (from) the schools and relax a bit," said Seang Mei Saw, professor of epidemiology at the National University of Singapore." [0] https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/05/asia/myopia-east-asia/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/05/asia/myopia-east-asia/index.h... edit: quotation marks

karatestomp 6y ago
Meanwhile we put 5-6 year olds in kindergarten classrooms with UV-blocking windows all day, for about 9 months during the part of the year with the least sunlight available, and we've cut recess time down to almost nothing, and schools increasingly don't send kids outside if the weather's anything other than perfect. At my kids' school they don't even have indoor recess if they keep them in! They just watch a damn movie. WTF. Of course there was some stupid educational fad that led them to remove all the toys from lower-grade classrooms to make room for "learning centers" (I gather this has happened more or less state-wide), so I guess if the gym's not available they can't really do indoor recess anyway, not that it helps their eyesight either way. And this is a very highly-ranked school for our state. 1.5 hours of recess daily minimum or bust for 3rd grade and under, I say, and I think that's not quite enough, really. Screw this 30 minutes crap. Know how I can guarantee my kids have behavior problems at home? Coop them up inside all day. Know how I make a day run smoothly? Make sure they're outside running around at least a couple hours while the sun's up. Then consider that they're giving a bunch of them nearsightedness on top of definitely creating behavioral and learning problems. It's crazy.
- ajmurmann 6y ago
  I think it's all a side effect of the treadmill that society is putting everyone on. Between globalization and automation there are fewer good jobs that more people are competing for. Either you end up with what used to be a lot of money or way too little. Till you "made it" you are constantly at risk at slipping off the treadmill and into the "way too little" group. Especially in the US. May this be reality or not, it's the experienced reality for many. We feel so much pressure to give our kids a head start which results in this rat race starting earlier and harder. I think this is just collateral damage from that shit going wrong. I'm so glad I was a kid in the 80s when playing outside was still normal.
  - karatestomp 6y ago
    We let ours play outside plenty, and there are quite a few other kids out. Does seem to be neighborhood-dependent, though, all kinda have their own culture. Our current one's less free-range than the last, which had big ol' gangs of kids with large age-ranges roaming around, and was great. We are fairly worried about 1) eventually having some kind of encounter with child protective services—which will likely end up fine, if it happens, but will also probably be really inconvenient and stressful—and 2) injuries that end up giving us yet another opportunity to play everyone's favorite game, Medical Billing Roulette, especially now that they're riding bikes. Multiple kids, just a matter of time until one of them get a hospital trip out of a bad fall. Odds very low they'll all make it to 18 without at least one broken bone. God damn do I wish we'd fix healthcare in the US. It's crazy how much background stress & anxiety that causes across just about all activities and choices. And that's with insurance. [EDIT] although I'm pretty sure the "playing outside" thing tapers off around tween/teen ages in a way it didn't for us, when they all start living on social media. :-/
    - nmfisher 6y ago
      > Odds very low they'll all make it to 18 without at least one broken bone. I consider broken bones to be an integral part of childhood. Well, for boys anyway. If you make it to 18 without a broken bone, you probably should have spent more time outside.
- thaumasiotes 6y ago
  > Then consider that they're giving a bunch of them nearsightedness on top of If it's any consolation, the drawbacks of myopia are fairly negligible. This is one reason there's not a lot of effort expended to prevent it.
  - jakear 6y ago
    I actually enjoy it. I’m at a point where I could get laser correction, but I’ve found that I value being able to remove my glasses and quite literally de-focus too much.
- Gustomaximus 6y ago
  I also dont like how people put sunscreen on the kids almost every time they go out. I live in Australia, so you absolutely do want to protect your skin, but heading to the park for an hour doesn't need sunscreen every time. 2 generations ago it was common to literally lie in the sun for hours putting coconut oil on your skin to increase tanning. And yes they did have higher skin cancer rates but there is a fair gap between that and not doing it + a long sleeve shirt/hat. Im trying to move to a screen free Sunday to encourage more outdoors/interaction but screens are so ingrained in our lives now its not popular.
  - originalbryan2 6y ago
    I'm not sure what to think about that. I live in CO and people here that don't sunscreen are so much more damaged than others I know in different states. It's drastically obvious. So I sunscreen my kids like crazy. I keep thinking that I'm at least giving their adult selves the option to look 50 at age 35 if they decide to quit using sunscreen religiously. Unsure if this is the best approach. Their doctor loves it though.
    - prawn 6y ago
      I'm in Australia and have an annual skin check. The doctor advises adults to use a moisturiser with sunscreen component as a daily default, especially anyone with fair hair. My wife tends to do this. The doctor has mentioned in the past that 60+ year old males who've worked farms or building sites their entire lives have a 35%+ strike rate on finding a cancerous mole when they come in for a check.
  - nmfisher 6y ago
    > I also dont like how people put sunscreen on the kids almost every time they go out. I live in Australia, so you absolutely do want to protect your skin, but heading to the park for an hour doesn't need sunscreen every time. I'm making an effort to get at least 15 minutes of direct sunlight every day, but at the same time, I make sure to put sunscreen on my face/neck every time I go out. Modern attire is the problem. Our clothes cover everything but the face, hands and neck, so when we try and increase sunlight exposure, we get huge doses concentrated on these areas. Ideally, I'd be sunning shirtless and with shorts that cover as little as legally possible. It's a much more sensible approach to boosting Vitamin D levels without risking skin cancer on the face/hands/neck/ears. Nebulous concepts of "social acceptability" be damned.
jayd16 6y ago
Nah, just Flux in more blue light during the day. /s
dannyw 6y ago
Does anyone know if this also applies for people in their early 20s? Of course more sunlight and exercise never hurts, but I’d be more compelled if there’s scientific evidence that it stops myopia progression.
- 1e-9 6y ago
  Yes[1]. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-09388-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-09388-7
- jeffreyrogers 6y ago
  Anecdotally I had great vision (20/15) before starting college. Before I went to college the eye doctor said not to bother coming back until I got married. After 3 years of looking at a screen in the dark I needed glasses.
  - gonzo41 6y ago
    You know that movie, Moon, with Sam Rockwell? I started feeling like the first version of the clone right after finishing university. I just keep falling apart!
saalweachter 6y ago
I'm sure there is a correlation, maybe even a strong one, but I have quite a bit of anecdata to suggest it is not true in all cases. (I grew up on a farm, and spent a helluva lot of time outside, and needed glasses long before my family had a computer; my father would have spent even more time outside than I did, and likewise is pretty nearsighted.)
- filoleg 6y ago
  Had the inverse situation observed too. One of my friends has been writing code intensely since at least the age of 11, still spending tons of time in front of the screen. Never needed glasses in his entire life. And then there is me, who had very limited access to screen time as a kid, and I still ended up needing glasses around the age of 15 (despite none of my parents needing glasses, which goes to show that "genetic" doesn't necessarily mean something as simple as "your parents are this way, so you are bound to be the same way"). I am not a doctor, but imo it is similar to a lot of other health concerns. Predominantly genetic, but you can still affect the outcome in slight ways and improve your chances a bit. Personal example: my grandfather who has been smoking at least a pack a day since the age of 9, and he is still doing way better in his 80s than majority of people his age. Working in the garden (even physically demanding stuff, like preparing the soil for potatoes every summer), fully mentally sound, etc. On another hand, you have plenty of young people who do everything right (no smoking, healthy diet, regular proper exercise, etc.) falling due to random health ailments. Which goes to show that while taking care of yourself is important and beneficial, the luck of hand you got can override it all in either direction at any moment.
- ipnon 6y ago
  The link references the rate of myopia in South Korea increasing from 18% in 1955 to 96% in 2011. This suggests 2 things: 1. Myopia is not entirely genetic, because genes for myopia could not have spread to almost all Koreans from almost no Koreans in the span of 56 years. 2. Myopia is somewhat genetic, because myopia existed in a significant proportion of the pre-industrial population.
  - saalweachter 6y ago
stevebmark 6y ago
Reminder that being outdoors and sunlight have nothing to do with myopia. It's about how much light is focusing on your fovea and in peripheral vision. Being outside is just one common way that your peripheral vision isn't constantly in focus because there's not a screen filling up most of your periperal vision.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Arbalest 6y ago
  Your statement does not make clear whether you're making a positive assertion about the mechanism of myopia, or whether you're making an assertion about some other potential eye condition. If you are making a positive assertion about the mechanism about myopia, then you are directly contradicting the article, which states the mechanism is not clear. While it may be the case that the article is misrepresenting the science, I personally find this to be unlikely. In which case, given you are asserting an alternate hypothesis compared to the null hypothesis presented in the article, I do ask you for some more backup to your claims.
  - stevebmark 6y ago
    I urge you take this seriously. It's frustrating that more people don't understand this topic, but I can't blame you for your ignorance, because you probably only learn from articles like these. Google for myopia control and start learning.
    - Arbalest 6y ago
      I'm looking at it entirely from an academic point of view. I personally have hyperopia, so a bit of added myopia might actually help. As distinct from presbyopia, which is different again.
chillacy 6y ago
Is there higher incidence of myopia in places with less sunlight?
chrischen 6y ago
Isn't near-sightedness an adaptation? Nearsighted people can see closer things better. For example, I don't have clinical eye problems but I have some friends who are severely near-sighted, and they can read the security text on US money whereas I cannot.

by ipnon 6y ago

karatestomp 6y ago

Meanwhile we put 5-6 year olds in kindergarten classrooms with UV-blocking windows all day, for about 9 months during the part of the year with the least sunlight available, and we've cut recess time down to almost nothing, and schools increasingly don't send kids outside if the weather's anything other than perfect. At my kids' school they don't even have indoor recess if they keep them in! They just watch a damn movie. WTF. Of course there was some stupid educational fad that led them to remove all the toys from lower-grade classrooms to make room for "learning centers" (I gather this has happened more or less state-wide), so I guess if the gym's not available they can't really do indoor recess anyway, not that it helps their eyesight either way. And this is a very highly-ranked school for our state. 1.5 hours of recess daily minimum or bust for 3rd grade and under, I say, and I think that's not quite enough, really. Screw this 30 minutes crap. Know how I can guarantee my kids have behavior problems at home? Coop them up inside all day. Know how I make a day run smoothly? Make sure they're outside running around at least a couple hours while the sun's up. Then consider that they're giving a bunch of them nearsightedness on top of definitely creating behavioral and learning problems. It's crazy.

ajmurmann 6y ago
I think it's all a side effect of the treadmill that society is putting everyone on. Between globalization and automation there are fewer good jobs that more people are competing for. Either you end up with what used to be a lot of money or way too little. Till you "made it" you are constantly at risk at slipping off the treadmill and into the "way too little" group. Especially in the US. May this be reality or not, it's the experienced reality for many. We feel so much pressure to give our kids a head start which results in this rat race starting earlier and harder. I think this is just collateral damage from that shit going wrong. I'm so glad I was a kid in the 80s when playing outside was still normal.
- karatestomp 6y ago
  We let ours play outside plenty, and there are quite a few other kids out. Does seem to be neighborhood-dependent, though, all kinda have their own culture. Our current one's less free-range than the last, which had big ol' gangs of kids with large age-ranges roaming around, and was great. We are fairly worried about 1) eventually having some kind of encounter with child protective services—which will likely end up fine, if it happens, but will also probably be really inconvenient and stressful—and 2) injuries that end up giving us yet another opportunity to play everyone's favorite game, Medical Billing Roulette, especially now that they're riding bikes. Multiple kids, just a matter of time until one of them get a hospital trip out of a bad fall. Odds very low they'll all make it to 18 without at least one broken bone. God damn do I wish we'd fix healthcare in the US. It's crazy how much background stress & anxiety that causes across just about all activities and choices. And that's with insurance. [EDIT] although I'm pretty sure the "playing outside" thing tapers off around tween/teen ages in a way it didn't for us, when they all start living on social media. :-/
  - nmfisher 6y ago
    > Odds very low they'll all make it to 18 without at least one broken bone. I consider broken bones to be an integral part of childhood. Well, for boys anyway. If you make it to 18 without a broken bone, you probably should have spent more time outside.
thaumasiotes 6y ago
> Then consider that they're giving a bunch of them nearsightedness on top of If it's any consolation, the drawbacks of myopia are fairly negligible. This is one reason there's not a lot of effort expended to prevent it.
- jakear 6y ago
  I actually enjoy it. I’m at a point where I could get laser correction, but I’ve found that I value being able to remove my glasses and quite literally de-focus too much.
Gustomaximus 6y ago
I also dont like how people put sunscreen on the kids almost every time they go out. I live in Australia, so you absolutely do want to protect your skin, but heading to the park for an hour doesn't need sunscreen every time. 2 generations ago it was common to literally lie in the sun for hours putting coconut oil on your skin to increase tanning. And yes they did have higher skin cancer rates but there is a fair gap between that and not doing it + a long sleeve shirt/hat. Im trying to move to a screen free Sunday to encourage more outdoors/interaction but screens are so ingrained in our lives now its not popular.
- originalbryan2 6y ago
  I'm not sure what to think about that. I live in CO and people here that don't sunscreen are so much more damaged than others I know in different states. It's drastically obvious. So I sunscreen my kids like crazy. I keep thinking that I'm at least giving their adult selves the option to look 50 at age 35 if they decide to quit using sunscreen religiously. Unsure if this is the best approach. Their doctor loves it though.
  - prawn 6y ago
    I'm in Australia and have an annual skin check. The doctor advises adults to use a moisturiser with sunscreen component as a daily default, especially anyone with fair hair. My wife tends to do this. The doctor has mentioned in the past that 60+ year old males who've worked farms or building sites their entire lives have a 35%+ strike rate on finding a cancerous mole when they come in for a check.
- nmfisher 6y ago
  > I also dont like how people put sunscreen on the kids almost every time they go out. I live in Australia, so you absolutely do want to protect your skin, but heading to the park for an hour doesn't need sunscreen every time. I'm making an effort to get at least 15 minutes of direct sunlight every day, but at the same time, I make sure to put sunscreen on my face/neck every time I go out. Modern attire is the problem. Our clothes cover everything but the face, hands and neck, so when we try and increase sunlight exposure, we get huge doses concentrated on these areas. Ideally, I'd be sunning shirtless and with shorts that cover as little as legally possible. It's a much more sensible approach to boosting Vitamin D levels without risking skin cancer on the face/hands/neck/ears. Nebulous concepts of "social acceptability" be damned.

jayd16 6y ago

Nah, just Flux in more blue light during the day. /s

dannyw 6y ago

Does anyone know if this also applies for people in their early 20s? Of course more sunlight and exercise never hurts, but I’d be more compelled if there’s scientific evidence that it stops myopia progression.

1e-9 6y ago
Yes[1]. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-09388-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-09388-7
jeffreyrogers 6y ago
Anecdotally I had great vision (20/15) before starting college. Before I went to college the eye doctor said not to bother coming back until I got married. After 3 years of looking at a screen in the dark I needed glasses.
- gonzo41 6y ago
  You know that movie, Moon, with Sam Rockwell? I started feeling like the first version of the clone right after finishing university. I just keep falling apart!

saalweachter 6y ago

I'm sure there is a correlation, maybe even a strong one, but I have quite a bit of anecdata to suggest it is not true in all cases. (I grew up on a farm, and spent a helluva lot of time outside, and needed glasses long before my family had a computer; my father would have spent even more time outside than I did, and likewise is pretty nearsighted.)

filoleg 6y ago
Had the inverse situation observed too. One of my friends has been writing code intensely since at least the age of 11, still spending tons of time in front of the screen. Never needed glasses in his entire life. And then there is me, who had very limited access to screen time as a kid, and I still ended up needing glasses around the age of 15 (despite none of my parents needing glasses, which goes to show that "genetic" doesn't necessarily mean something as simple as "your parents are this way, so you are bound to be the same way"). I am not a doctor, but imo it is similar to a lot of other health concerns. Predominantly genetic, but you can still affect the outcome in slight ways and improve your chances a bit. Personal example: my grandfather who has been smoking at least a pack a day since the age of 9, and he is still doing way better in his 80s than majority of people his age. Working in the garden (even physically demanding stuff, like preparing the soil for potatoes every summer), fully mentally sound, etc. On another hand, you have plenty of young people who do everything right (no smoking, healthy diet, regular proper exercise, etc.) falling due to random health ailments. Which goes to show that while taking care of yourself is important and beneficial, the luck of hand you got can override it all in either direction at any moment.
ipnon 6y ago
The link references the rate of myopia in South Korea increasing from 18% in 1955 to 96% in 2011. This suggests 2 things: 1. Myopia is not entirely genetic, because genes for myopia could not have spread to almost all Koreans from almost no Koreans in the span of 56 years. 2. Myopia is somewhat genetic, because myopia existed in a significant proportion of the pre-industrial population.
- saalweachter 6y ago

stevebmark 6y ago

Reminder that being outdoors and sunlight have nothing to do with myopia. It's about how much light is focusing on your fovea and in peripheral vision. Being outside is just one common way that your peripheral vision isn't constantly in focus because there's not a screen filling up most of your periperal vision.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Arbalest 6y ago
Your statement does not make clear whether you're making a positive assertion about the mechanism of myopia, or whether you're making an assertion about some other potential eye condition. If you are making a positive assertion about the mechanism about myopia, then you are directly contradicting the article, which states the mechanism is not clear. While it may be the case that the article is misrepresenting the science, I personally find this to be unlikely. In which case, given you are asserting an alternate hypothesis compared to the null hypothesis presented in the article, I do ask you for some more backup to your claims.
- stevebmark 6y ago
  I urge you take this seriously. It's frustrating that more people don't understand this topic, but I can't blame you for your ignorance, because you probably only learn from articles like these. Google for myopia control and start learning.
  - Arbalest 6y ago
    I'm looking at it entirely from an academic point of view. I personally have hyperopia, so a bit of added myopia might actually help. As distinct from presbyopia, which is different again.

chillacy 6y ago

Is there higher incidence of myopia in places with less sunlight?

chrischen 6y ago

Isn't near-sightedness an adaptation? Nearsighted people can see closer things better. For example, I don't have clinical eye problems but I have some friends who are severely near-sighted, and they can read the security text on US money whereas I cannot.