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Well in that case, Microsoft is really targeting developers. VSCode, Typescript, Github, WSL, the inevitable tie into Azure... I wonder how this all ends. We

Well in that case, Microsoft is really targeting developers. VSCode, Typescript, Github, WSL, the inevitable tie into Azure... I wonder how this all ends. We can short circuit some of the inevitability I guess, still holding out for this: https://panic.com/nova/ https://panic.com/nova/ Looks like Deno already adopted Typescript, but the world doesn’t have to revolve around Github. AWS and Azure will keep each other honest. Edit: I’ll add that I really really don’t think Microsoft wants to proselytize developers into it’s ecosystem just to make apps for Windows. I really think they are going to try mobile again.

minxomat 6y ago
Not to forget LinkedIn, which is now being deeply integrated with O365, which has gained MyAnalytics (or whatever it's called) which is for all intents an automated "productivity" tracking software that aims to capture the time you're working, who you work with and how you spend your time. I wonder when that data will be exposed on LinkedIn (hey recruiters, this guy is working late hours a lot!). And then the eventual integration of that dystopian system with MS's developer monopoly. Now we have a truly "boring dystopia". The worst part is: MS now has all the tools for this and more.
- runawaybottle 6y ago
  Microsoft wants nothing more than a world full of .NET developers.
- abakker 6y ago
  I've been waiting for the integration of active directory and linkedIn. It seems only a slight stretch to think of using corporate data and social data for cross-validation of true Identity.
52-6F-62 6y ago
Worst case (MS moves to bad-acting), re: Deno—TypeScript can at least be forked for now https://github.com/Microsoft/TypeScript https://github.com/Microsoft/TypeScript I'd love to see Mozilla hop on board with it
- runawaybottle 6y ago
  What happens when Typescript gets extended and able to compile down to C#? Then it just makes sense to use a .NET stack. Javascript ecosystem extinguished. Everybody will forget how to write on the open web platform.
  - Doches 6y ago
    _Yawn_. Wake me up on this thread when Blink/Webkit switch to .NET from V8/JavaScriptCore. Javascript (and thus Typescript as a higher-order lang) is _useful_ on mobile (hi, react-native) and the desktop, sure, but we're clearly a _long_ way from replacing JS in the browser. Witness the delightful, slow-motion failure to launch that was Dart...
    - runawaybottle 6y ago
      I hope you are right, it took no time for Typescript to catch on, and got ordained in Deno.
      - 52-6F-62 6y ago
        And the Deno team moved from Golang to Rust for their implementation. Maybe that will result in some interesting developments.
        Doches 6y ago
        I prefer to think of this as Ryan Dahl choosing Mozilla over Google, whatever the relative merits of Golang vs. Rust.
        ragnese 6y ago
        Not that it matters, but I think it's much more likely he chose Rust specifically for the language features over Go. A lot of Rust's type-system and semantics are inspired by ML-family languages which are well-known to be great for writing parsers, etc.
jka 6y ago
Hypothetically, if they're able to provide a seamless developer ecosystem -- and a corresponding target platform for those developers to deploy to -- then they can guide the direction of the next wave of applications, and they may be able to incentivize and pick winners within it. My fear is that we're in for a tedious decade where we see unironically-announced re-implementations of every existing iOS, Android, and Linux desktop application against this upcoming target platform, with corresponding re-occurrences of previously-seen bugs and security vulnerabilities to match. I'd prefer to learn that we're going to standardize on open web technologies for delivery of software, and that for each case there'll be at least a few mature open source applications or libraries that fit the bill -- and that all that amazing developer capability and productivity is directed towards maintaining and enhancing those, instead of re-inventing them. We'll see.
- runawaybottle 6y ago
  Right, we definitely would prefer the acceptance of open web technologies vs the shepherding into particular domains. I mentioned in another comment, it’s nowhere near a stretch to see Typescript extended and compiled down to C#, where suddenly we are all on the .NET stack because we all got shepherded via Typescript. It can happen that fast. Then we’ll forget what basic JavaScript is because we’re so used to scaffolding with .NET UI Kits and server apis. How vulnerable is the web community to this? Pretty vulnerable, a lot of us are tied into React or Angular or Vue, or even in more specific cases tied into a UI library like Material. Apologies for the narrow web centric perspective, I know there is a world outside of web :p If I had to takeover with my stack, this is exactly how I’d do it.
  - negativegate 6y ago
    I'm not following this train of thought. First of all C# doesn't run in the browser without compiling to WASM which has all sorts of caveats. Second, I don't see how the fact that one could compile TS to C# would suddenly put everyone "on the .NET stack". Does the same risk exist if we can compile JS to C#? Which would work about just as well (i.e. not). And TS is also open source and produces reasonably readable JS, so it's not like there's even any lock-in. Wouldn't it make more sense to be worried about compiling C# or other languages to WASM? Which I'm also not worried about.
Doches 6y ago
At this point Deno is really more of a counter-example to our grim dystopian Microsoft-only future: it's built in Rust (Mozilla) with userspace Typescript (Microsoft) running on V8 (Google). I hold out hope for the nascent Deno community to find some way to build in Swift as a core language, too...
blondin 6y ago
maybe... microsoft, and apple also, should make desktop native apps easier to develop. and stop with the mobile chase. only apps from the top 10 in every app store are used on a daily basis. customers are not willing to use anything else, unless required to -- i.e. bank, insurance, etc. on the other hand, we are always willing to give an improved desktop app a try.

minxomat 6y ago

Not to forget LinkedIn, which is now being deeply integrated with O365, which has gained MyAnalytics (or whatever it's called) which is for all intents an automated "productivity" tracking software that aims to capture the time you're working, who you work with and how you spend your time. I wonder when that data will be exposed on LinkedIn (hey recruiters, this guy is working late hours a lot!). And then the eventual integration of that dystopian system with MS's developer monopoly. Now we have a truly "boring dystopia". The worst part is: MS now has all the tools for this and more.

runawaybottle 6y ago
Microsoft wants nothing more than a world full of .NET developers.
abakker 6y ago
I've been waiting for the integration of active directory and linkedIn. It seems only a slight stretch to think of using corporate data and social data for cross-validation of true Identity.

52-6F-62 6y ago

Worst case (MS moves to bad-acting), re: Deno—TypeScript can at least be forked for now https://github.com/Microsoft/TypeScript https://github.com/Microsoft/TypeScript I'd love to see Mozilla hop on board with it

runawaybottle 6y ago
What happens when Typescript gets extended and able to compile down to C#? Then it just makes sense to use a .NET stack. Javascript ecosystem extinguished. Everybody will forget how to write on the open web platform.
- Doches 6y ago
  _Yawn_. Wake me up on this thread when Blink/Webkit switch to .NET from V8/JavaScriptCore. Javascript (and thus Typescript as a higher-order lang) is _useful_ on mobile (hi, react-native) and the desktop, sure, but we're clearly a _long_ way from replacing JS in the browser. Witness the delightful, slow-motion failure to launch that was Dart...
  - runawaybottle 6y ago
    I hope you are right, it took no time for Typescript to catch on, and got ordained in Deno.
    - 52-6F-62 6y ago
      And the Deno team moved from Golang to Rust for their implementation. Maybe that will result in some interesting developments.
      - Doches 6y ago
        I prefer to think of this as Ryan Dahl choosing Mozilla over Google, whatever the relative merits of Golang vs. Rust.
        ragnese 6y ago
        Not that it matters, but I think it's much more likely he chose Rust specifically for the language features over Go. A lot of Rust's type-system and semantics are inspired by ML-family languages which are well-known to be great for writing parsers, etc.

jka 6y ago

Hypothetically, if they're able to provide a seamless developer ecosystem -- and a corresponding target platform for those developers to deploy to -- then they can guide the direction of the next wave of applications, and they may be able to incentivize and pick winners within it. My fear is that we're in for a tedious decade where we see unironically-announced re-implementations of every existing iOS, Android, and Linux desktop application against this upcoming target platform, with corresponding re-occurrences of previously-seen bugs and security vulnerabilities to match. I'd prefer to learn that we're going to standardize on open web technologies for delivery of software, and that for each case there'll be at least a few mature open source applications or libraries that fit the bill -- and that all that amazing developer capability and productivity is directed towards maintaining and enhancing those, instead of re-inventing them. We'll see.

runawaybottle 6y ago
Right, we definitely would prefer the acceptance of open web technologies vs the shepherding into particular domains. I mentioned in another comment, it’s nowhere near a stretch to see Typescript extended and compiled down to C#, where suddenly we are all on the .NET stack because we all got shepherded via Typescript. It can happen that fast. Then we’ll forget what basic JavaScript is because we’re so used to scaffolding with .NET UI Kits and server apis. How vulnerable is the web community to this? Pretty vulnerable, a lot of us are tied into React or Angular or Vue, or even in more specific cases tied into a UI library like Material. Apologies for the narrow web centric perspective, I know there is a world outside of web :p If I had to takeover with my stack, this is exactly how I’d do it.
- negativegate 6y ago
  I'm not following this train of thought. First of all C# doesn't run in the browser without compiling to WASM which has all sorts of caveats. Second, I don't see how the fact that one could compile TS to C# would suddenly put everyone "on the .NET stack". Does the same risk exist if we can compile JS to C#? Which would work about just as well (i.e. not). And TS is also open source and produces reasonably readable JS, so it's not like there's even any lock-in. Wouldn't it make more sense to be worried about compiling C# or other languages to WASM? Which I'm also not worried about.

Doches 6y ago

At this point Deno is really more of a counter-example to our grim dystopian Microsoft-only future: it's built in Rust (Mozilla) with userspace Typescript (Microsoft) running on V8 (Google). I hold out hope for the nascent Deno community to find some way to build in Swift as a core language, too...

blondin 6y ago

maybe... microsoft, and apple also, should make desktop native apps easier to develop. and stop with the mobile chase. only apps from the top 10 in every app store are used on a daily basis. customers are not willing to use anything else, unless required to -- i.e. bank, insurance, etc. on the other hand, we are always willing to give an improved desktop app a try.