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I think the bissgest issue the Trump administration has with space is they don't have any idea how the Kennedy and Johnson administrations dealt with it. They

by kayfox 6y ago

I think the bissgest issue the Trump administration has with space is they don't have any idea how the Kennedy and Johnson administrations dealt with it. They think that Kennedy just decided one day that we would send men to the moon by the end of the 60's, but in reality it was years of discussions with NASA, largely championed by Johnson, before Johnson recommended to Kennedy that they establish this policy to put the US ahead of the Soviet Union. Instead of this, we have the usual situation modern space exploration has settled into, some president boasts that we will do some thing and then after they left office some other president quietly kills it because its way to expensive. What we should be doing is building coalitions with other countries to do join missions to the moon and all that, thats why the ISS has been so successful, its not just the US or Russia contributing, but dozens of countries. Not to say it could happen without the US or Russia, but the large number of countries working on it helps quite a bit.

ceejayoz 6y ago
It's also questionable if we'd have made it to the moon had Kennedy not gotten shot. The "do it for the murdered President" motivation likely helped keep the schedule pushing forwards, at least to some extent. https://www.fastcompany.com/90376962/if-president-kennedy-hadnt-been-killed-would-we-have-landed-on-the-moon-on-july-20-1969-it-seems-unlikely https://www.fastcompany.com/90376962/if-president-kennedy-ha...
nickff 6y ago
Having read some of the histories of NASA and spaceflight, I think you're dramatically mistaken. Kennedy committed to the lunar landing shortly after Shepherd's suborbital flight, and the idea from NASA was that they'd orbit the moon. Kennedy thought a landing would be more spectacular, but it took NASA quite a while to settle on lunar orbit rendezvous, let alone the Saturn V architecture. Kennedy was on the verge of cancelling Apollo when he died, and Johnston was anything but a space expert. Johnson was definitely responsible for ensuring no American woman went to space until after he was out of office, the evidence is clear on that one. The single person most responsible for getting America to the moon was probably John Houbolt (or perhaps Konstantin Tsiolkovsky). There is also a lot of debate as to whether the ISS has been successful; this really depends on what your objectives were/are. [1] John Logsdon's Bibligraphy [2] https://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley/news/factsheets/Rendezvous.html https://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley/news/factsheets/Rendezv...
- oh_sigh 6y ago
  Weren't all of the people who went into space up until at least the mid 70s all naval/AF aviators/test pilots? Was there any chance for them to be women since women couldn't be test pilots back then?
  - nickff 6y ago
    Johnson had a meeting with some advocates who made the case for a couple of women being qualified to go to the moon (I believe the meeting took place at around the time of the selection of the second group of Gemini astronauts). If you look at his hand-written notes on the meeting agenda (included in a few document collections such as the Penguin Book of Outer Space Exploration), you will see that Johnson appears to have rejected the idea for... personal reasons.
  - PopePompus 6y ago
    Harrison Schmitt (Apollo 17) was not a test pilot or military aviator.
- nickik 6y ago
  Johnson is also basically the reason why most of this happened at all.
  - nickff 6y ago
    How so? Johnson definitely did a lot of pork-barreling with the space program funds, but I think the main reason that Apollo went forward was because Kennedy had espoused a grand vision shortly before being shot. Without Lee Harvey Oswald, I doubt that Neil and Buzz would have made it to the moon, especially given Apollo 1.
    - nickik 6y ago
      Well money is important and it was Johnson who pushed the idea on Kennedy. Kennedy initial thought the idea pretty nonsense, Johnson early on saw NASA a soft-power instrument.

by kayfox 6y ago

ceejayoz 6y ago

It's also questionable if we'd have made it to the moon had Kennedy not gotten shot. The "do it for the murdered President" motivation likely helped keep the schedule pushing forwards, at least to some extent. https://www.fastcompany.com/90376962/if-president-kennedy-hadnt-been-killed-would-we-have-landed-on-the-moon-on-july-20-1969-it-seems-unlikely https://www.fastcompany.com/90376962/if-president-kennedy-ha...

nickff 6y ago

Having read some of the histories of NASA and spaceflight, I think you're dramatically mistaken. Kennedy committed to the lunar landing shortly after Shepherd's suborbital flight, and the idea from NASA was that they'd orbit the moon. Kennedy thought a landing would be more spectacular, but it took NASA quite a while to settle on lunar orbit rendezvous, let alone the Saturn V architecture. Kennedy was on the verge of cancelling Apollo when he died, and Johnston was anything but a space expert. Johnson was definitely responsible for ensuring no American woman went to space until after he was out of office, the evidence is clear on that one. The single person most responsible for getting America to the moon was probably John Houbolt (or perhaps Konstantin Tsiolkovsky). There is also a lot of debate as to whether the ISS has been successful; this really depends on what your objectives were/are. [1] John Logsdon's Bibligraphy [2] https://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley/news/factsheets/Rendezvous.html https://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley/news/factsheets/Rendezv...

oh_sigh 6y ago
Weren't all of the people who went into space up until at least the mid 70s all naval/AF aviators/test pilots? Was there any chance for them to be women since women couldn't be test pilots back then?
- nickff 6y ago
  Johnson had a meeting with some advocates who made the case for a couple of women being qualified to go to the moon (I believe the meeting took place at around the time of the selection of the second group of Gemini astronauts). If you look at his hand-written notes on the meeting agenda (included in a few document collections such as the Penguin Book of Outer Space Exploration), you will see that Johnson appears to have rejected the idea for... personal reasons.
- PopePompus 6y ago
  Harrison Schmitt (Apollo 17) was not a test pilot or military aviator.
nickik 6y ago
Johnson is also basically the reason why most of this happened at all.
- nickff 6y ago
  How so? Johnson definitely did a lot of pork-barreling with the space program funds, but I think the main reason that Apollo went forward was because Kennedy had espoused a grand vision shortly before being shot. Without Lee Harvey Oswald, I doubt that Neil and Buzz would have made it to the moon, especially given Apollo 1.
  - nickik 6y ago
    Well money is important and it was Johnson who pushed the idea on Kennedy. Kennedy initial thought the idea pretty nonsense, Johnson early on saw NASA a soft-power instrument.