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> The recovery project has been vociferously opposed by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, whose representatives argued in court that the Tita

> The recovery project has been vociferously opposed by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, whose representatives argued in court that the Titanic, sunk about 370 miles off the coast of Newfoundland, should be respected as a grave rather than mined as a museum supply. Frankly I agree. This isn't a scientific mission, or any sort of fact-finding mission; it's just looting. The plan to make a "wonderful exhibit" sounds like a cynical business ploy to get the public into museums with sensational exhibitions. Perhaps getting the public into museums is not such a bad thing, but is it such a good thing that it justifies this sort of looting? I don't really see how. Edit: I should say that I'm not categorically opposed to retrieving items from shipwrecks, if it's being done respectfully. But this plan with the Titanic doesn't seem very respectful to me. An example of what I'd consider reasonably respectful was the retrieval of the bell from the SS Edmund Fitzgerald: > The ship's bell was recovered from the wreck on July 4, 1995. A replica engraved with the names of the 29 sailors who lost their lives replaced the original on the wreck.[190] A legal document signed by 46 relatives of the deceased, officials of the Mariners' Church of Detroit and the Great Lakes Shipwreck Historic Society (GLSHS) "donated the custodian and conservatorship" of the bell to the GLSHS "to be incorporated in a permanent memorial at Whitefish Point, Michigan, to honor the memory of the 29 men of the SS Edmund Fitzgerald."[191] The terms of the legal agreement made the GLSHS responsible for maintaining the bell, and forbade it from selling or moving the bell or using it for commercial purposes. It provided for transferring the bell to the Mariners' Church of Detroit if the terms were violated.[191] Even this though caused some controversy.

me_me_me 6y ago
> This isn't a scientific mission, or any sort of fact-finding mission; it's just looting I have the same feeling. Initially I though it was to retrieve something that would provide insight or new information. For example retrieving a journal etc., but this really sounds like an artifact grab.
wnissen 6y ago
I know what you're saying. That is a very respectful way of honoring a wreck. And the treasure hunting that goes on in shipwrecks usually seems like well-financed looting. At the same time, in 50 years when most of Titanic has been consumed by metal-eating bacteria, we'll regret not doing more to preserve it. And preserving it means bringing items to the surface. The environment down there is going to degrade everything until it's a pile of rubble. Is that a superior remembrance or tribute? I can see why people would disagree, but for me I'd prefer to have stuff in a museum. Put together a group of curators and descendants and hash out a plan for what level of recovery and how it would be exhibited. It's a huge ship, you could bring back several room's worth and still leave the vast majority of it undisturbed as the tomb it is.
- catalogia 6y ago
  Thousands of artifacts have already been looted from the Titanic wreck. Another commenter brings up the excavation/looting of ancient Egyptian tombs, which seems oddly fitting since the Luxor casino in Las Vegas (the ancient Egypt themed one) has hundreds of artifacts from the Titanic, and there are many more elsewhere as well. How much is enough? Will the looting continue until nothing is left? What is wrong with letting the rest of it rust away in dignity, rather than being gawked at by bored gamblers? With respect to the excavation/looting of Egyptian tombs, I consider this somewhat distasteful too, but at least in that case it provides unique opportunities to learn about a distant largely forgotten culture. The rediscovery of the Rosetta stone facilitated the decipherment of hieroglyphics, and it's my impression that King Tutankhamun's tomb revealed much about ancient Egyptian society and technology (I'm not sure what exactly, it's not something I've read up on.) The people involved in those cases may have been cynical profit-seekers too, but at least the artifacts they removed actually taught us things about the past. I don't think there is much to learn from the telegraph from the Titanic though; I expect there are probably extant examples of contemporary radio technology in better condition in museums already.
Shivetya 6y ago
How many generations must pass before such a site passes into being able to be scavenged for items of interest? There have never been remains found. In some waters you could find bodies but not where the Titanic sits. Has it aged enough to fall into the same category we assign Egyptian artifacts? We have dug up remains of many societies and some are within a few hundred years of age. So it really comes down to, what is the rule? To me it should be allowed to retrieve items from the site and if no national government wants to sponsor it then why not a private organization? if placed under proper restrictions but not outright confiscation they should be able to operate as a museum type organization taking their historical artifacts on tour so others may enjoy them
- rootsudo 6y ago
  About a century and a half. We're almost there.
- dfxm12 6y ago
  Is “standard off-the-shelf” equipment of the time that has little value outside the ship truly an item of interest?

me_me_me 6y ago

> This isn't a scientific mission, or any sort of fact-finding mission; it's just looting I have the same feeling. Initially I though it was to retrieve something that would provide insight or new information. For example retrieving a journal etc., but this really sounds like an artifact grab.

wnissen 6y ago

I know what you're saying. That is a very respectful way of honoring a wreck. And the treasure hunting that goes on in shipwrecks usually seems like well-financed looting. At the same time, in 50 years when most of Titanic has been consumed by metal-eating bacteria, we'll regret not doing more to preserve it. And preserving it means bringing items to the surface. The environment down there is going to degrade everything until it's a pile of rubble. Is that a superior remembrance or tribute? I can see why people would disagree, but for me I'd prefer to have stuff in a museum. Put together a group of curators and descendants and hash out a plan for what level of recovery and how it would be exhibited. It's a huge ship, you could bring back several room's worth and still leave the vast majority of it undisturbed as the tomb it is.

catalogia 6y ago
Thousands of artifacts have already been looted from the Titanic wreck. Another commenter brings up the excavation/looting of ancient Egyptian tombs, which seems oddly fitting since the Luxor casino in Las Vegas (the ancient Egypt themed one) has hundreds of artifacts from the Titanic, and there are many more elsewhere as well. How much is enough? Will the looting continue until nothing is left? What is wrong with letting the rest of it rust away in dignity, rather than being gawked at by bored gamblers? With respect to the excavation/looting of Egyptian tombs, I consider this somewhat distasteful too, but at least in that case it provides unique opportunities to learn about a distant largely forgotten culture. The rediscovery of the Rosetta stone facilitated the decipherment of hieroglyphics, and it's my impression that King Tutankhamun's tomb revealed much about ancient Egyptian society and technology (I'm not sure what exactly, it's not something I've read up on.) The people involved in those cases may have been cynical profit-seekers too, but at least the artifacts they removed actually taught us things about the past. I don't think there is much to learn from the telegraph from the Titanic though; I expect there are probably extant examples of contemporary radio technology in better condition in museums already.

Shivetya 6y ago

How many generations must pass before such a site passes into being able to be scavenged for items of interest? There have never been remains found. In some waters you could find bodies but not where the Titanic sits. Has it aged enough to fall into the same category we assign Egyptian artifacts? We have dug up remains of many societies and some are within a few hundred years of age. So it really comes down to, what is the rule? To me it should be allowed to retrieve items from the site and if no national government wants to sponsor it then why not a private organization? if placed under proper restrictions but not outright confiscation they should be able to operate as a museum type organization taking their historical artifacts on tour so others may enjoy them

rootsudo 6y ago
About a century and a half. We're almost there.
dfxm12 6y ago
Is “standard off-the-shelf” equipment of the time that has little value outside the ship truly an item of interest?