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Web browsers really are the new operating systems. Chrome OS was far ahead of its time, both in its general user hostility and in its excessive resource consum

Web browsers really are the new operating systems. Chrome OS was far ahead of its time, both in its general user hostility and in its excessive resource consumption for seemingly mundane tasks. Like when your roommate's YouTube streaming makes your Excel-like app horribly slow, because your new spreadsheet app needs high-speed internet for no obvious reason. BTW, WebRTC and WebAssembly were great for crypto mining trojans embedded into ads. Before, they had to port their crypto miner to JavaScript by hand. By now, you can just cross-compile it. The progress of technology ... helps only the technology, but not you, the disposable user in front of the screen :p

giantrobot 6y ago
Hey, refID af64e30y, get back to looking at ads while your browser mines cryptocoins! We'll be watching!
typ 6y ago
Strictly speaking, it is more like the shell of the distributed operating system.
- Minor49er 6y ago
  Which is also funny because, if I remember correctly, IE was deeply integrated into Windows Explorer and the desktop was essentially rendered by the browser. I remember being able to even change my wallpaper to a custom HTML page in Windows
TomMarius 6y ago
You can't cross compile anything other than crypto miners or how does it not help anything else?
- fxtentacle 6y ago
  Most of the other uses are pointless. I don't need WebRTC for chat, because IRC is still working just fine. I don't need WebRTC for video calls, because Skype is still working just fine. I don't need WebRTC and WebAssembly for online gaming, because I have Steam to install games locally. Plus latency and performance of games emscripten-ed to wasm tends to be atrocious. So the only uses where I have seen the new Web* APIs in my life was obnoxious ads and newspaper websites trying to shove recommendations and notifications into my face. What would you want to cross-compile that couldn't be done much better by building a proper local app?
  - fxtentacle 6y ago
    Plenty of downvotes, but no productive suggestion of what use-case would be best served with WebRTC ...
    - seangrogg 6y ago
      WebRTC enables many of these things on the browser. That is the point. So your "I don't need WebRTC because I use native apps" is basically just "I don't need the internet because I can go next door to talk to my neighbors". Just because something doesn't have value for you does not suggest it does not have value, period.
      - fxtentacle 6y ago
        Almost. I'd say my argument is "I don't care about an online egg retailer shipping from China, because using the local supermarket is better in every way." And obviously, Skype and IRC use the internet, too. So what is the benefit to me - the user - of "Skype inside web browser" over "Skype separate of web browser"? I understand that WebRTC makes "Skype inside web browser" possible, but it also makes a lot of less desirable behavior possible. So there is be a trade-off between the advantages and the risks from adding WebRTC. Which benefit does WebRTC generate for the user? I.e. why is it a good thing that web browsers added this?
        TomMarius 6y ago
        That's just a matter of browser software. The Web platform should not suffer just because the browser is imperfect. You can write your perfect browser, fairly easily with the libraries available. I will try when I have some time.
    - coribuci 6y ago
      > Plenty of downvotes, but no productive suggestion of what use-case would be best served with WebRTC ... Worms. Todays web browser are like MS office 15 years ago. A disaster waiting to happen.
detaro 6y ago
> Before, they had to port their crypto miner to JavaScript by hand No, cross-compilers to JS are and were thing too, and were used by cryptominers.
- fxtentacle 6y ago
  Yes, but before webrtc they were easy to block.
  - detaro 6y ago
    What do cryptominers need WebRTC for?
    - fxtentacle 6y ago
      To connect to arbitrary IPs and ports to send home the results of the calculations.
      - zlsa 6y ago
        Which can be done with HTTP as well.
        fxtentacle 6y ago
        Yes, but that is A LOT easier to filter and detect, because then it'll be using the XHR API and HTTP protocol, whereas WebRTC allows free-form protocols.

giantrobot 6y ago

Hey, refID af64e30y, get back to looking at ads while your browser mines cryptocoins! We'll be watching!

typ 6y ago

Strictly speaking, it is more like the shell of the distributed operating system.

Minor49er 6y ago
Which is also funny because, if I remember correctly, IE was deeply integrated into Windows Explorer and the desktop was essentially rendered by the browser. I remember being able to even change my wallpaper to a custom HTML page in Windows

TomMarius 6y ago

You can't cross compile anything other than crypto miners or how does it not help anything else?

fxtentacle 6y ago
Most of the other uses are pointless. I don't need WebRTC for chat, because IRC is still working just fine. I don't need WebRTC for video calls, because Skype is still working just fine. I don't need WebRTC and WebAssembly for online gaming, because I have Steam to install games locally. Plus latency and performance of games emscripten-ed to wasm tends to be atrocious. So the only uses where I have seen the new Web* APIs in my life was obnoxious ads and newspaper websites trying to shove recommendations and notifications into my face. What would you want to cross-compile that couldn't be done much better by building a proper local app?
- fxtentacle 6y ago
  Plenty of downvotes, but no productive suggestion of what use-case would be best served with WebRTC ...
  - seangrogg 6y ago
    WebRTC enables many of these things on the browser. That is the point. So your "I don't need WebRTC because I use native apps" is basically just "I don't need the internet because I can go next door to talk to my neighbors". Just because something doesn't have value for you does not suggest it does not have value, period.
    - fxtentacle 6y ago
      Almost. I'd say my argument is "I don't care about an online egg retailer shipping from China, because using the local supermarket is better in every way." And obviously, Skype and IRC use the internet, too. So what is the benefit to me - the user - of "Skype inside web browser" over "Skype separate of web browser"? I understand that WebRTC makes "Skype inside web browser" possible, but it also makes a lot of less desirable behavior possible. So there is be a trade-off between the advantages and the risks from adding WebRTC. Which benefit does WebRTC generate for the user? I.e. why is it a good thing that web browsers added this?
      - TomMarius 6y ago
        That's just a matter of browser software. The Web platform should not suffer just because the browser is imperfect. You can write your perfect browser, fairly easily with the libraries available. I will try when I have some time.
  - coribuci 6y ago
    > Plenty of downvotes, but no productive suggestion of what use-case would be best served with WebRTC ... Worms. Todays web browser are like MS office 15 years ago. A disaster waiting to happen.

detaro 6y ago

> Before, they had to port their crypto miner to JavaScript by hand No, cross-compilers to JS are and were thing too, and were used by cryptominers.

fxtentacle 6y ago
Yes, but before webrtc they were easy to block.
- detaro 6y ago
  What do cryptominers need WebRTC for?
  - fxtentacle 6y ago
    To connect to arbitrary IPs and ports to send home the results of the calculations.
    - zlsa 6y ago
      Which can be done with HTTP as well.
      - fxtentacle 6y ago
        Yes, but that is A LOT easier to filter and detect, because then it'll be using the XHR API and HTTP protocol, whereas WebRTC allows free-form protocols.