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But it is by definition selfish. You literally have thousands of generations that have gone before you, that have sacrificed to give you those very choices you

by aantix 6y ago

But it is by definition selfish. You literally have thousands of generations that have gone before you, that have sacrificed to give you those very choices you’ve outlined. Your parents comforted you when you were scared, even to the detriment of their sleep. Fed you, clothed you, shared all of their resources even when they didn’t feel like it, even when it wasn’t to their advantage. Edit: not sure why this is downvoted? “Selfish: lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.”

aianus 6y ago
Presumably the “others” referenced in the definition need to actually exist for you to lack consideration for them.
- folkhack 6y ago
  Agree. And in this situation I would define any potential child as part of the "others" as in "it's selfish for me to have a kid if I'm not prepared financially/emotionally."
- aantix 6y ago
  False. People take into consideration future people/events all of the time. It’s called planning.
  - HelloMcFly 6y ago
    You know what future events I'm taking into consideration? Devastating climate change and what seems to be the decline of society more generally. I have real concerns about choosing to bring a child into a world that I feel so pessimistic about. That strikes me as thoughtful, not selfish. Though I have many selfish reasons for wanting to not have children, just as everyone who wants children has just as many selfish reasons themselves. I view neither of those things as "bad". Moreover, if I'm going to start considering the impact I have on future generations and people by procreating, where does it stop? Should we have 10 children? Does my duty stop at two when we're replacing ourselves? And given my level of commitment to local and national causes (financial and volunteer hours), does that offset ostensible selfishness of not having children? I'm passionate about helping this world despite having concerns about bringing anyone new into it.
    - aantix 6y ago
      Not even close. Donating money and volunteer hours are not the same as 24 hour care and responsibility for years on end. They aren’t offsetting. You’re skipping the very hard work of it all, and justly, missing the reward too.
      - HelloMcFly 6y ago
        I congratulate you for convincing yourself that your desire to do the thing you really want to do - have children - is any less selfish than the decisions I've also chosen. I sincerely believe you've missed the point, and I wish you ill-luck on your moral crusade.
josefresco 6y ago
What about someone who has no kids, but instead cares for and commits their entire existence to helping humanity? Still selfish? What about the couple who has 10 kids and relies on charity and public assistance to survive? Not selfish?
SketchySeaBeast 6y ago
It's important to keep in mind that all those generations before us did it because that's just what you did - by not reproducing you're not stopping the Kwisatz Haderach from being born or anything. There's no manifest destiny here - it's just that sex feels good. That's it.
game_the0ry 6y ago
Your comments are not being downvoted because they are false - there is some truth in what you say. They're being downvoted because: (1) your comment is a blanket assumption on an entire group of people, and (2) you claim a position of (likely unearned) moral superiority that (you assume) allows you to make such judgements on others. Thus, you come off as "un-cool." Be cool, my friend. Don't judge strangers for the important life choices they make. You don't know enough about others' lives to make justifiable judgements on the important life choices they make.
- aantix 6y ago
  >thousands of generations that have gone before you (a) This is true. You would not be here if prior generations didn't sacrifice to have children. >Fed you, clothed you, shared all of their resources even when they didn’t feel like it, even when it wasn’t to their advantage (b) This is true. You would not exist if someone did not take care of you. (c) The OP stated in this public forum, "We're just taking our time trying to do the right thing for us really... I just wish people would stop calling us selfish for that" Which meets the definition of "selfish".
  - folkhack 6y ago
    Since when is the concern for a child (born or not) with strong aspirations for financial/emotional self-care and responsibility "selfish"? I am not comfortable having a child, therefore I am not having a child. I am not going to impose an unwanted child on this world as I know what it feels like to be one...
    - game_the0ry 6y ago
      Agreed, no point in making babies if you know the standard of living for your family will be worse. Is that selfish? Don't know, don't care. I don't need to justify my choices to internet strangers.
      - aantix 6y ago
danbolt 6y ago
> Your parents comforted you when you were scared, even to the detriment of their sleep. Fed you, clothed you, shared all of their resources even when they didn’t feel like it, even when it wasn’t to their advantage. Oof, I’m glad you haven’t met some of the parents I’ve met.

by aantix 6y ago

aianus 6y ago

Presumably the “others” referenced in the definition need to actually exist for you to lack consideration for them.

folkhack 6y ago
Agree. And in this situation I would define any potential child as part of the "others" as in "it's selfish for me to have a kid if I'm not prepared financially/emotionally."
aantix 6y ago
False. People take into consideration future people/events all of the time. It’s called planning.
- HelloMcFly 6y ago
  You know what future events I'm taking into consideration? Devastating climate change and what seems to be the decline of society more generally. I have real concerns about choosing to bring a child into a world that I feel so pessimistic about. That strikes me as thoughtful, not selfish. Though I have many selfish reasons for wanting to not have children, just as everyone who wants children has just as many selfish reasons themselves. I view neither of those things as "bad". Moreover, if I'm going to start considering the impact I have on future generations and people by procreating, where does it stop? Should we have 10 children? Does my duty stop at two when we're replacing ourselves? And given my level of commitment to local and national causes (financial and volunteer hours), does that offset ostensible selfishness of not having children? I'm passionate about helping this world despite having concerns about bringing anyone new into it.
  - aantix 6y ago
    Not even close. Donating money and volunteer hours are not the same as 24 hour care and responsibility for years on end. They aren’t offsetting. You’re skipping the very hard work of it all, and justly, missing the reward too.
    - HelloMcFly 6y ago
      I congratulate you for convincing yourself that your desire to do the thing you really want to do - have children - is any less selfish than the decisions I've also chosen. I sincerely believe you've missed the point, and I wish you ill-luck on your moral crusade.

josefresco 6y ago

What about someone who has no kids, but instead cares for and commits their entire existence to helping humanity? Still selfish? What about the couple who has 10 kids and relies on charity and public assistance to survive? Not selfish?

SketchySeaBeast 6y ago

It's important to keep in mind that all those generations before us did it because that's just what you did - by not reproducing you're not stopping the Kwisatz Haderach from being born or anything. There's no manifest destiny here - it's just that sex feels good. That's it.

game_the0ry 6y ago

Your comments are not being downvoted because they are false - there is some truth in what you say. They're being downvoted because: (1) your comment is a blanket assumption on an entire group of people, and (2) you claim a position of (likely unearned) moral superiority that (you assume) allows you to make such judgements on others. Thus, you come off as "un-cool." Be cool, my friend. Don't judge strangers for the important life choices they make. You don't know enough about others' lives to make justifiable judgements on the important life choices they make.

aantix 6y ago
>thousands of generations that have gone before you (a) This is true. You would not be here if prior generations didn't sacrifice to have children. >Fed you, clothed you, shared all of their resources even when they didn’t feel like it, even when it wasn’t to their advantage (b) This is true. You would not exist if someone did not take care of you. (c) The OP stated in this public forum, "We're just taking our time trying to do the right thing for us really... I just wish people would stop calling us selfish for that" Which meets the definition of "selfish".
- folkhack 6y ago
  Since when is the concern for a child (born or not) with strong aspirations for financial/emotional self-care and responsibility "selfish"? I am not comfortable having a child, therefore I am not having a child. I am not going to impose an unwanted child on this world as I know what it feels like to be one...
  - game_the0ry 6y ago
    Agreed, no point in making babies if you know the standard of living for your family will be worse. Is that selfish? Don't know, don't care. I don't need to justify my choices to internet strangers.
    - aantix 6y ago

danbolt 6y ago

> Your parents comforted you when you were scared, even to the detriment of their sleep. Fed you, clothed you, shared all of their resources even when they didn’t feel like it, even when it wasn’t to their advantage. Oof, I’m glad you haven’t met some of the parents I’ve met.