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As a parent I personally think people are way too preoccupied with trying to have perfect material conditions before having a child. If you can put a roof over

As a parent I personally think people are way too preoccupied with trying to have perfect material conditions before having a child. If you can put a roof over their head, feed, cloth, and love them and give them a mostly constant home environment you're doing your job as a parent. Kids are sensitive to their social conditions but oblivious to their material situation until they've entered preadolescence. This can be pulled off even in times of great economic insecurity (think about all the depression-era babies). It's arguably easier to get them out of way when you're younger, healthier and can withstand sleep deprivation better. Money won't buy you sleep unless you've got enough for a nanny.

shadowgovt 6y ago
As the xkcd comic notes, we are, each of us, the tip of a long chain of people who lived in less than perfect material conditions and succeeded in raising a family anyway. (Of course, the same comic also notes "They did it, therefore I'm here, therefore I can do it" is the mother of all confirmation biases ;) )
Analemma_ 6y ago
> As a parent I personally think people are way too preoccupied with trying to have perfect material conditions before having a child. I alluded to this in a different comment, but I think for most people the uncertainty is a bigger impediment than absolute conditions. If you had poor material conditions, but could at least count on them to remain stable no matter what, you could make that work as fair as raising a family. But the defining feature of the contemporary economy is that you'll never have that certainty: at any minute you might go from material security to being kicked out onto the street, and in the US at least you'll get no help except "Guess you shouldn't have had children lol; pull yourself up by your bootstraps loser." > This can be pulled off even in times of great economic insecurity (think about all the depression-era babies). I'm not sure what you mean by "all the depression-era babies". The Great Depression had the lowest birthrate the US had ever seen, and it did not pick up again until after the war: [0] [0]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1033027/fertility-rate-us-1800-2020/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1033027/fertility-rate-u...
folkhack 6y ago
> If you can put a roof over their head, feed, cloth, and love them and give them a mostly constant home environment you're doing your job as a parent See - that's the thing. Lots of us can't commit to that because we're still securing the consistency of those resources for ourselves. All I'm saying is I don't agree with "I'm way too preoccupied" when I see the following grocery list as a very tall order for most people starting off today. > Kids are sensitive to their social conditions but oblivious to their material situation until they've entered preadolescence. As someone who grew up in a family with even mild struggles... yeah this just doesn't hold up. Lots of kids know as early as when they enter school. You notice the gaps between you and your peers almost immediately and often will have peers point it out to you because the poor kid is easy to pick on. You wear different clothes (second hand/etc), you probably struggle a bit with school, you don't have the cool video game system, you don't get to do the cool stuff other kids do... etc etc. Kids notice way earlier than preadolescence.
- brenden2 6y ago
  I too grew up in a poor household, and it may be part of the reason why I'm reluctant. I wouldn't want to put someone else through what I had to go through.
- empath75 6y ago
  I grew up poor and on the scale of 'things that bothered me as a child' it doesn't even rate compared to my mom being abusive. If you're treated with love and respect by your family, having clothes with holes on them are a speedbump at worst.
kashura 6y ago
+1. It's never a "perfect" time to do huge things like getting married or having kids. There is always a risk of something going wrong. Waiting for that moment is never ending.

shadowgovt 6y ago

As the xkcd comic notes, we are, each of us, the tip of a long chain of people who lived in less than perfect material conditions and succeeded in raising a family anyway. (Of course, the same comic also notes "They did it, therefore I'm here, therefore I can do it" is the mother of all confirmation biases ;) )

Analemma_ 6y ago

> As a parent I personally think people are way too preoccupied with trying to have perfect material conditions before having a child. I alluded to this in a different comment, but I think for most people the uncertainty is a bigger impediment than absolute conditions. If you had poor material conditions, but could at least count on them to remain stable no matter what, you could make that work as fair as raising a family. But the defining feature of the contemporary economy is that you'll never have that certainty: at any minute you might go from material security to being kicked out onto the street, and in the US at least you'll get no help except "Guess you shouldn't have had children lol; pull yourself up by your bootstraps loser." > This can be pulled off even in times of great economic insecurity (think about all the depression-era babies). I'm not sure what you mean by "all the depression-era babies". The Great Depression had the lowest birthrate the US had ever seen, and it did not pick up again until after the war: [0] [0]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1033027/fertility-rate-us-1800-2020/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1033027/fertility-rate-u...

folkhack 6y ago

> If you can put a roof over their head, feed, cloth, and love them and give them a mostly constant home environment you're doing your job as a parent See - that's the thing. Lots of us can't commit to that because we're still securing the consistency of those resources for ourselves. All I'm saying is I don't agree with "I'm way too preoccupied" when I see the following grocery list as a very tall order for most people starting off today. > Kids are sensitive to their social conditions but oblivious to their material situation until they've entered preadolescence. As someone who grew up in a family with even mild struggles... yeah this just doesn't hold up. Lots of kids know as early as when they enter school. You notice the gaps between you and your peers almost immediately and often will have peers point it out to you because the poor kid is easy to pick on. You wear different clothes (second hand/etc), you probably struggle a bit with school, you don't have the cool video game system, you don't get to do the cool stuff other kids do... etc etc. Kids notice way earlier than preadolescence.

brenden2 6y ago
I too grew up in a poor household, and it may be part of the reason why I'm reluctant. I wouldn't want to put someone else through what I had to go through.
empath75 6y ago
I grew up poor and on the scale of 'things that bothered me as a child' it doesn't even rate compared to my mom being abusive. If you're treated with love and respect by your family, having clothes with holes on them are a speedbump at worst.

kashura 6y ago

+1. It's never a "perfect" time to do huge things like getting married or having kids. There is always a risk of something going wrong. Waiting for that moment is never ending.