3 ms·

What apps depend on a specific init system? Gnome does not depend on systemd, but rather logind. KDE used to be the same, until someone started maintaining Co

by Valmar 6y ago

What apps depend on a specific init system? Gnome does not depend on systemd, but rather logind. KDE used to be the same, until someone started maintaining ConsoleKit2 again, proper, at which point they were happy to support it. ConsoleKit was dropped because it just wasn't being maintained, and had various limitations.

traverseda 6y ago
Why does logind depend on systemd?
- Valmar 6y ago
  It's part of the systemd project umbrella? It's part of the systemd monorepo? It uses libsystemd? Maybe it's simply easier to maintain this way? elogind exists, if you care. It exposes the DBus interfaces that logind supports for applications to call. Thus, environments like Gnome can be supported on non-systemd systems if they emulate and/or expose and implement the required DBus interfaces.
  - traverseda 6y ago
    That's sort of the complaint, why I accused them of "doing their own weird version of EEE". When faced with a choice of "make everybody else do a whole bunch of work so that they're not forced to use your entire project-umbrella" or "make some minor changes to our architecture so things aren't as tightly coupled" they almost always choose the one that forces you to use systemd.
    - AsyncAwait 6y ago
      logind has a stable API, it is possible to build alternative implementations not coupled to systemd, yet so far I don't see much on that front. See also https://lwn.net/Articles/586141 https://lwn.net/Articles/586141
    - the_why_of_y 6y ago
      To the extent that you believe that free software development should work such that random people on internet forums dictate the architecture to the people who are doing the work, and instead of writing their software to solve problems that actual users have, they should comply with these whims, you better prepare to be disappointed.

3 ms·

What apps depend on a specific init system? Gnome does not depend on systemd, but rather logind. KDE used to be the same, until someone started maintaining Co

by Valmar 6y ago

traverseda 6y ago
Why does logind depend on systemd?
- Valmar 6y ago
  It's part of the systemd project umbrella? It's part of the systemd monorepo? It uses libsystemd? Maybe it's simply easier to maintain this way? elogind exists, if you care. It exposes the DBus interfaces that logind supports for applications to call. Thus, environments like Gnome can be supported on non-systemd systems if they emulate and/or expose and implement the required DBus interfaces.
  - traverseda 6y ago
    That's sort of the complaint, why I accused them of "doing their own weird version of EEE". When faced with a choice of "make everybody else do a whole bunch of work so that they're not forced to use your entire project-umbrella" or "make some minor changes to our architecture so things aren't as tightly coupled" they almost always choose the one that forces you to use systemd.
    - AsyncAwait 6y ago
      logind has a stable API, it is possible to build alternative implementations not coupled to systemd, yet so far I don't see much on that front. See also https://lwn.net/Articles/586141 https://lwn.net/Articles/586141
    - the_why_of_y 6y ago
      To the extent that you believe that free software development should work such that random people on internet forums dictate the architecture to the people who are doing the work, and instead of writing their software to solve problems that actual users have, they should comply with these whims, you better prepare to be disappointed.