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> Linux is ok for certain types of developers, it's still awful for normal users, abysmal for office work and obviously not a choice if you develop Windows soft

> Linux is ok for certain types of developers, it's still awful for normal users, abysmal for office work and obviously not a choice if you develop Windows software. Don't want to get into an OS war here but merely stating your opinion as fact without supportive evidence is not in the spirit of HackerNews. > it's still awful for normal users, abysmal for office work For office work a lot of workload has moved to the web browser. Creating documents and working on spreadsheets for instance can now all be done online with Microsoft's Office offering and other competing products like Google Docs. And why is it awful for normal users? ChromeOS for example is just linux, and that whole platform is targeted towards 'normal users'. I use linux on all of my personal devices and I use these devices to do very 'normal user' activities like watching YT, social media, blogging, etc. There are many communities that consist of 'normal users' like /r/Thinkpads or /r/LinuxOnThinkpad that are currently enjoying linux. Precisely why do you think it's awful for normal users and office work?

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
> Don't want to get into an OS war here but merely stating your opinion as fact without supportive evidence is not in the spirit of HackerNews. These things are pretty much self evident. > Linux is ok for certain types of developers Web developers and HP computing. Game developers? Haha, no. Embedded? Too many proprietary toolchains that don't run on Linux. Productivity and business applications? See below section on office work. ML? nVidia [apparently I'm incorrect on this one]. > it's still awful for normal users Alright, this is a bit subjective, but is supported by the stats that show Linux Desktop still in a distant and well deserved third place. You list a few tasks that you seem to believe are "normal user" tasks, I submit to you that you drastically underestimate the things a normal desktop computer user does with their computer, since most of the tasks you listed are now things that people do on phones and tablets. > abysmal for office work In most offices, Microsoft Office is an indispensable productivity tool (which many HNers, having little experience with real office work, will underestimate severely) and it is only supported on Windows (No, the web version is not the same).
- freeone3000 6y ago
  ML is actually mostly done on linux. CUDA works absolutely great with nvidia binary drivers. Display performance is irrelevant.
- computerex 6y ago
  > Embedded? Too many proprietary toolchains that don't run on Linux. It's funny/surprising that you'd say that, given that Linux is the single most dominant OS in the embedded device space. What toolchains are you referring to? Here are some well known ones. https://www.yoctoproject.org/ https://www.yoctoproject.org/ https://www.ptxdist.org/ https://www.ptxdist.org/ https://openwrt.org/ https://openwrt.org/ > ML? nVidia [apparently I'm incorrect on this one]. Not only are you wrong about CUDA, but Google's custom built chip designed for ML runs soley on Linux: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor_processing_unit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor_processing_unit ML almost exclusively runs on Linux. > and it is only supported on Windows Office also runs on macOS. You can also run Office in Linux using WINE. > Alright, this is a bit subjective, but is supported by the stats that show Linux Desktop still in a distant and well deserved third place. You list a few tasks that you seem to believe are "normal user" tasks, I submit to you that you drastically underestimate the things a normal desktop computer user does with their computer, since most of the tasks you listed are now things that people do on phones and tablets. It's really easy to say anything without providing any supportive evidence to substantiate your claims. Pray tell what tasks you are referring to that "normal users" partake that supposedly can't be done in desktop linux.
  - cartoonfoxes 6y ago
    >It's funny/surprising that you'd say that, given that Linux is the single most dominant OS in the embedded device space. What toolchains are you referring to? Here are some well known ones. No, and no. The parent was referring to embedded development toolchains - compilers, IDEs, endless small utilities, debuggers, analyzers, etc. etc. Commercial tooling is almost all Windows-exclusive, even if it's using a smattering of open-source bits underneath. Also no. The "embedded device space" is v a s t. New projects for phones and similar hardware profiles might choose an Android or other flavor of embedded linux, for sure. Even within sexytech consumer products you're more likely targeting something like VxWorks or QNX as not. The physical world, the domain of embedded devices, is not smartphones and SaaS. Unless you're talking about a very specific product category it's laughable to call Linux dominant here.
golergka 6y ago
Because when I open a 300-page, media-heavy game design document in Google docs on my i7, 32gb computer it still lags when I scroll it. And the last time I tried to use OpenOffice (or whatever was the fork called, I mix them up), I couldn't shake the feeling that UX was created by developers who just wanted to check the boxes in the list of features, without any field testing whatsoever.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago

> Don't want to get into an OS war here but merely stating your opinion as fact without supportive evidence is not in the spirit of HackerNews. These things are pretty much self evident. > Linux is ok for certain types of developers Web developers and HP computing. Game developers? Haha, no. Embedded? Too many proprietary toolchains that don't run on Linux. Productivity and business applications? See below section on office work. ML? nVidia [apparently I'm incorrect on this one]. > it's still awful for normal users Alright, this is a bit subjective, but is supported by the stats that show Linux Desktop still in a distant and well deserved third place. You list a few tasks that you seem to believe are "normal user" tasks, I submit to you that you drastically underestimate the things a normal desktop computer user does with their computer, since most of the tasks you listed are now things that people do on phones and tablets. > abysmal for office work In most offices, Microsoft Office is an indispensable productivity tool (which many HNers, having little experience with real office work, will underestimate severely) and it is only supported on Windows (No, the web version is not the same).

freeone3000 6y ago
ML is actually mostly done on linux. CUDA works absolutely great with nvidia binary drivers. Display performance is irrelevant.
computerex 6y ago
> Embedded? Too many proprietary toolchains that don't run on Linux. It's funny/surprising that you'd say that, given that Linux is the single most dominant OS in the embedded device space. What toolchains are you referring to? Here are some well known ones. https://www.yoctoproject.org/ https://www.yoctoproject.org/ https://www.ptxdist.org/ https://www.ptxdist.org/ https://openwrt.org/ https://openwrt.org/ > ML? nVidia [apparently I'm incorrect on this one]. Not only are you wrong about CUDA, but Google's custom built chip designed for ML runs soley on Linux: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor_processing_unit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor_processing_unit ML almost exclusively runs on Linux. > and it is only supported on Windows Office also runs on macOS. You can also run Office in Linux using WINE. > Alright, this is a bit subjective, but is supported by the stats that show Linux Desktop still in a distant and well deserved third place. You list a few tasks that you seem to believe are "normal user" tasks, I submit to you that you drastically underestimate the things a normal desktop computer user does with their computer, since most of the tasks you listed are now things that people do on phones and tablets. It's really easy to say anything without providing any supportive evidence to substantiate your claims. Pray tell what tasks you are referring to that "normal users" partake that supposedly can't be done in desktop linux.
- cartoonfoxes 6y ago
  >It's funny/surprising that you'd say that, given that Linux is the single most dominant OS in the embedded device space. What toolchains are you referring to? Here are some well known ones. No, and no. The parent was referring to embedded development toolchains - compilers, IDEs, endless small utilities, debuggers, analyzers, etc. etc. Commercial tooling is almost all Windows-exclusive, even if it's using a smattering of open-source bits underneath. Also no. The "embedded device space" is v a s t. New projects for phones and similar hardware profiles might choose an Android or other flavor of embedded linux, for sure. Even within sexytech consumer products you're more likely targeting something like VxWorks or QNX as not. The physical world, the domain of embedded devices, is not smartphones and SaaS. Unless you're talking about a very specific product category it's laughable to call Linux dominant here.

golergka 6y ago

Because when I open a 300-page, media-heavy game design document in Google docs on my i7, 32gb computer it still lags when I scroll it. And the last time I tried to use OpenOffice (or whatever was the fork called, I mix them up), I couldn't shake the feeling that UX was created by developers who just wanted to check the boxes in the list of features, without any field testing whatsoever.