3 ms·

My understanding, which may well be wrong, is that pennies must be accepted in payment of debts. So, for example, if you eat at a restaurant where you eat first

My understanding, which may well be wrong, is that pennies must be accepted in payment of debts. So, for example, if you eat at a restaurant where you eat first and then pay, a debt is created, and pennies must be accepted. However, in most situations, you pay first, so there is no debt, and the business can insist on whatever payment terms it wants. Incidentally, even in the case where you are paying later, if the payment terms are clear in advance, I suspect the business could insist on the preset terms.

leetcrew 6y ago
if true, this would lead to some highly unreasonable situations. suppose you go to a fancy restaurant with your family and rack up a $1000 bill. if you pay in pennies, this would be over two tons in coins. does the restaurant really have to say "we do not accept pennies" upfront to not be obligated to accept your payment?
- goodcanadian 6y ago
  Yes, well, that is my understanding of the issue. In the UK, there are limits on the amount of small change that must be accepted: https://www.royalmint.com/help/trm-faqs/legal-tender-amounts/ https://www.royalmint.com/help/trm-faqs/legal-tender-amounts... For the U.S., the best I could find is as follows: https://www.expertlaw.com/library/consumer-protection/it-legal-refuse-cash-payment https://www.expertlaw.com/library/consumer-protection/it-leg... This is (probably) consistent with my interpretation, the key issue being whether the restaurant bill is an "existing debt" or a simple transaction. Anyway, the fact that most people aren't assholes means this sort of thing rarely comes up. I also expect the restaurant would refuse to serve you if you showed up with two tons of pennies. :-)
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    thanks for the link. in the US page, there's actually a section titled "Payment Made in Small Change or Pennies". all the examples involve debts to the government, but it looks like, while the restaurant wouldn't be able to refuse the payment altogether, it might have a legal basis to charge a handling fee for extremely inconvenient denominations. not exactly conclusive, but enough to satisfy my curiosity.
    - goodcanadian 6y ago
      Indeed. It comes up on HN often that the law is not code and is subject to interpretation by judges who are human. If you are being unreasonable for the sake of being unreasonable, it won't matter if you are technically correct; the judge is still going to slam you for it.
ashtonkem 6y ago
> This statute means that all United States money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law which says otherwise. https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm

leetcrew 6y ago

if true, this would lead to some highly unreasonable situations. suppose you go to a fancy restaurant with your family and rack up a $1000 bill. if you pay in pennies, this would be over two tons in coins. does the restaurant really have to say "we do not accept pennies" upfront to not be obligated to accept your payment?

goodcanadian 6y ago
Yes, well, that is my understanding of the issue. In the UK, there are limits on the amount of small change that must be accepted: https://www.royalmint.com/help/trm-faqs/legal-tender-amounts/ https://www.royalmint.com/help/trm-faqs/legal-tender-amounts... For the U.S., the best I could find is as follows: https://www.expertlaw.com/library/consumer-protection/it-legal-refuse-cash-payment https://www.expertlaw.com/library/consumer-protection/it-leg... This is (probably) consistent with my interpretation, the key issue being whether the restaurant bill is an "existing debt" or a simple transaction. Anyway, the fact that most people aren't assholes means this sort of thing rarely comes up. I also expect the restaurant would refuse to serve you if you showed up with two tons of pennies. :-)
- leetcrew 6y ago
  thanks for the link. in the US page, there's actually a section titled "Payment Made in Small Change or Pennies". all the examples involve debts to the government, but it looks like, while the restaurant wouldn't be able to refuse the payment altogether, it might have a legal basis to charge a handling fee for extremely inconvenient denominations. not exactly conclusive, but enough to satisfy my curiosity.
  - goodcanadian 6y ago
    Indeed. It comes up on HN often that the law is not code and is subject to interpretation by judges who are human. If you are being unreasonable for the sake of being unreasonable, it won't matter if you are technically correct; the judge is still going to slam you for it.

ashtonkem 6y ago

> This statute means that all United States money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person, or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether to accept cash unless there is a state law which says otherwise. https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm