4 ms·

There’s so many head games that goes into US politics that seems pointless. Democrats in particular compromise with themselves so much before even offering some

There’s so many head games that goes into US politics that seems pointless. Democrats in particular compromise with themselves so much before even offering something to republicans before compromising even more. Republicans pretty much never do that, it’s just boom, let’s give big tax cuts to the rich or stop all immigration. Left side of the US needs to boldly actually fight for things rather than step my step planning out what “seems reasonable to republicans”, it’s just a bad losing idea, go boldly with what’s the moral and reasonable thing.

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 6y ago
Consider how all sides are pretty fractured, left and right. Policies that were widely popular for the political right a decade ago (free, unrestricted trade) is now dead in the water with tariffs or the threat of them raining down. Similarly what’s “important” on the left is very fluid, and the political left is headed for the same upheaval the political right experienced with the tea party where it essentially became a populist platform.
- millstone 6y ago
  I disagree that "the right is fractured." The US political right has never been more unified, and its unifier is Trump. Trump is wildly popular among Republicans, and all the old seams have been closed: religious vs business, populist vs rich, etc. The left is legitimately fractured, but maybe it's not as bad as it looks. Sound and fury on social media in the Bernie camp, yet the party coalesced strongly around Biden. I'd like to hear the case for a left "political upheaval." Where will it come from? Bernie's theory was that youth would vote en masse, and that did not happen.
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    You're just observing the fact that the Democrats had a primary fight this year and the Republicans didn't because Trump is the incumbent. The problem the left is having right now is articulating what it is they actually want to do. Their main rallying cry for some time has been that they're not Trump, but then what are they?
    - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
      Not being Trump might just be enough.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
        A vote for "mystery box" is a vote for Not That Other Guy. It seems less than inspiring.
droopyEyelids 6y ago
Then trick is, the 'compromise' suggestions are what the democrats want. The USA democrats aren't a left wing party, they're a center and even center right party. A politically established left wing doesn't exist in the USA like it does in Europe.
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  The "compromise" suggestions are terrible. I half suspect the Democrats propose them because they're trying to preserve the problem so they can run on trying to solve it again next time. (The Republicans have done the same thing with the war on drugs/terror.) > The USA democrats aren't a left wing party, they're a center and even center right party. A politically established left wing doesn't exist in the USA like it does in Europe. "The USA republicans aren't a right wing party, they're a center and even center left party. A politically established right wing doesn't exist in the USA like it does in Saudi Arabia." You can anchor anything anywhere. The Saudis aren't really right wing because they're not literally Hitler. The Nordic countries aren't really left wing because they have private industry. It isn't really saying anything. Even the concept is flawed. Is a tax cut for the poor a left-wing program because it goes to the poor, or a right-wing program because it's a tax cut and implies a reduction in the size of government? It matters if a policy is sound, not whether it's dexter or sinister.
tacitusarc 6y ago
This viewpoint is often touted by those on the political left but has no evidentiary basis that I've seen, certainly. At most the democratic party has a strong tendency of allowing its most fringe members an out-sized voice in the interest of inclusion, which only pushes away its much larger moderate base. Perhaps the form of "compromise" you are referring to is just the more extreme viewpoints being filtered out as actual reasonable policy proposals are formed. EDIT: Which, by the way, also happens in the Republican party. See, for instance, the repeal vs replace movement and how those went nowhere.
- marricks 6y ago
  Well the success of the uncompromising tea party in taking over the Republican Party and leading the way to Trump seems pretty obvious. I’m not sure how anyone who follows Democrats wouldn’t see the constant compromises unless they’re center or center right. Pelosi has control of the House but refuses to pass extremely popular ideas like pay check guarantees or cash per month for everyone, or rent cancellation etc. It could setup a showdown in the senate where republicans have to vote down very popular ideas, but she refuses. That’s just a recent example, it happens continuously...
  - heromal 6y ago
    Yeah that's why dumbass Pelosi introduced a 3 billion dollar bill that she knew would never see the light of day.
    - ponker 6y ago
      that's 3 trillion.
drapred7 6y ago
>stop all immigration Regan's amnesty for over 3 million illegals: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128303672 https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128303... Bush doubles immigration: https://immigration.laws.com/immigration-act-of-1990 https://immigration.laws.com/immigration-act-of-1990 Trump supports immigration in "greatest numbers ever" in 2019 State of the Union: https://time.com/5521860/2019-state-of-the-union-trump-transcript/ https://time.com/5521860/2019-state-of-the-union-trump-trans... The GOP has supported immigration since the civil war. Both parties are controlled by the same political forces, and neither are on the real left or right, however hard though they pretend to be.
- mxcrossb 6y ago
  One of these three is not like the other

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 6y ago

Consider how all sides are pretty fractured, left and right. Policies that were widely popular for the political right a decade ago (free, unrestricted trade) is now dead in the water with tariffs or the threat of them raining down. Similarly what’s “important” on the left is very fluid, and the political left is headed for the same upheaval the political right experienced with the tea party where it essentially became a populist platform.

millstone 6y ago
I disagree that "the right is fractured." The US political right has never been more unified, and its unifier is Trump. Trump is wildly popular among Republicans, and all the old seams have been closed: religious vs business, populist vs rich, etc. The left is legitimately fractured, but maybe it's not as bad as it looks. Sound and fury on social media in the Bernie camp, yet the party coalesced strongly around Biden. I'd like to hear the case for a left "political upheaval." Where will it come from? Bernie's theory was that youth would vote en masse, and that did not happen.
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  You're just observing the fact that the Democrats had a primary fight this year and the Republicans didn't because Trump is the incumbent. The problem the left is having right now is articulating what it is they actually want to do. Their main rallying cry for some time has been that they're not Trump, but then what are they?
  - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
    Not being Trump might just be enough.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
      A vote for "mystery box" is a vote for Not That Other Guy. It seems less than inspiring.

droopyEyelids 6y ago

Then trick is, the 'compromise' suggestions are what the democrats want. The USA democrats aren't a left wing party, they're a center and even center right party. A politically established left wing doesn't exist in the USA like it does in Europe.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago
The "compromise" suggestions are terrible. I half suspect the Democrats propose them because they're trying to preserve the problem so they can run on trying to solve it again next time. (The Republicans have done the same thing with the war on drugs/terror.) > The USA democrats aren't a left wing party, they're a center and even center right party. A politically established left wing doesn't exist in the USA like it does in Europe. "The USA republicans aren't a right wing party, they're a center and even center left party. A politically established right wing doesn't exist in the USA like it does in Saudi Arabia." You can anchor anything anywhere. The Saudis aren't really right wing because they're not literally Hitler. The Nordic countries aren't really left wing because they have private industry. It isn't really saying anything. Even the concept is flawed. Is a tax cut for the poor a left-wing program because it goes to the poor, or a right-wing program because it's a tax cut and implies a reduction in the size of government? It matters if a policy is sound, not whether it's dexter or sinister.

tacitusarc 6y ago

This viewpoint is often touted by those on the political left but has no evidentiary basis that I've seen, certainly. At most the democratic party has a strong tendency of allowing its most fringe members an out-sized voice in the interest of inclusion, which only pushes away its much larger moderate base. Perhaps the form of "compromise" you are referring to is just the more extreme viewpoints being filtered out as actual reasonable policy proposals are formed. EDIT: Which, by the way, also happens in the Republican party. See, for instance, the repeal vs replace movement and how those went nowhere.

marricks 6y ago
Well the success of the uncompromising tea party in taking over the Republican Party and leading the way to Trump seems pretty obvious. I’m not sure how anyone who follows Democrats wouldn’t see the constant compromises unless they’re center or center right. Pelosi has control of the House but refuses to pass extremely popular ideas like pay check guarantees or cash per month for everyone, or rent cancellation etc. It could setup a showdown in the senate where republicans have to vote down very popular ideas, but she refuses. That’s just a recent example, it happens continuously...
- heromal 6y ago
  Yeah that's why dumbass Pelosi introduced a 3 billion dollar bill that she knew would never see the light of day.
  - ponker 6y ago
    that's 3 trillion.

drapred7 6y ago

>stop all immigration Regan's amnesty for over 3 million illegals: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128303672 https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128303... Bush doubles immigration: https://immigration.laws.com/immigration-act-of-1990 https://immigration.laws.com/immigration-act-of-1990 Trump supports immigration in "greatest numbers ever" in 2019 State of the Union: https://time.com/5521860/2019-state-of-the-union-trump-transcript/ https://time.com/5521860/2019-state-of-the-union-trump-trans... The GOP has supported immigration since the civil war. Both parties are controlled by the same political forces, and neither are on the real left or right, however hard though they pretend to be.

mxcrossb 6y ago
One of these three is not like the other