6 ms·

He explicitly referred to Fallon Fox, saying "You are a fucking man." Not a very tactful way to speak about a transgender woman. And yes, that's transphobic spe

He explicitly referred to Fallon Fox, saying "You are a fucking man." Not a very tactful way to speak about a transgender woman. And yes, that's transphobic speech.

CyberDildonics 6y ago
He said that in the context of the physicality of someone who was fully grown, recently transitioned and was actually brutalizing women in MMA fights.
- UncleMeat 6y ago
  So? "you are a fucking man" isn't some dispassionate analysis of how to develop a rule system that works for both trans and cis athletes. Just because the context isn't inherently transphobic doesn't mean that he gets a free pass.
  - RaleyField 6y ago
    That's why should verbally slap him around a bit, preventatively, just in case? Because as you admitted "the context isn't inherently transphobic".
    - UncleMeat 6y ago
      He took a topic that isn't inherently transphobic and added transphobia. He was rightly criticized for saying this.
      - RaleyField 6y ago
        You are choosing the most uncharitable reading which is not what he meant. How do I know that? Because, despite his meatheaddy appearances, he has consistently shown himself to not be transphobic, I watch his show. What he wanted to say is that her sex was biologically of male and that's why she has in this specific case unduly enormous advantage, to a degree that she is depriving others of fair chance at competing.
        tcberry 6y ago
        Whether or not trans athletes should be allowed to compete in the same classes as their cis counterparts in MMA is a conversation we can have, but it is beside the point. Trans women are women. If someone makes plainly transphobic comments, and then refuses to apologize for them (or even doubles down), I'm not going to go and listen to hundreds of hours of their content to attempt to gain a more nuanced understanding of their attitude towards the trans community. I'm just going to think of that person as a transphobe.
        HeadsUpHigh 6y ago
        >Whether or not trans athletes should be allowed to compete in the same classes as their cis counterparts in MMA is a conversation we can have Thats the conversation he was having. You don't have to listen to hours of content, just take it from people here telling you that that was the context of the discussion. Or don't and simply don't comment on the matter. You are not obliged to have an opinion on everything.
        confusedpikachu 6y ago
        Thank you for writing this, I was freaking out here doubting my own common sense.
        socratesque 6y ago
        Respectfully, I understand you have good intent trying to stand up for a marginalized group, but you're being very ignorant. You can't just helicopter in, show no interest in understanding the situation, then cherry-pick something to spew off some unwarranted opinions about before helicoptering out again. While that singular sentence is absolutely insensitive, the context absolutely matters if you're going to judge the character of the person who said it.
        tcberry 6y ago
        And I appreciate that you are not trying to impute ill intent on me, although you may be underestimating my proximity to the transgender community personally. From my reading of the longer-form quotes – those that I have based my opinion on, I really don't think the context helps Rogan out all that much. "Look, [Fox is] huge! She's not just huge, she's got a fucking man's face. I mean, you can wear all the lipstick you want. You want to be a woman and you want to take female hormones, you want to get a boob job, that's all fine. I support your life to live, your right to live as a woman. Fight guys, yes. She has to fight guys. First of all, she's not really a she. She's a transgender, post-op person. The operation doesn't shave down your bone density. It doesn't change. You look at a man's hands and you look at a women's hands and they're built different. They're just thicker, they're stronger, your wrists are thicker, your elbows are thicker, your joints are thicker. Just the mechanical function of punching, a man can do it much harder than a woman can, period." "If you want to be a woman in the bedroom and you know you want to play house and all of that other shit and you feel like you have, your body is really a woman's body trapped inside a man's frame and so you got a operation, that's all good in the hood. But you can't fight chicks. Get the fuck out of here. You're out of your mind. You need to fight men, you know? Period. You need to fight men your size because you're a man. You're a man without a dick. I'm not trying to discriminate against women in any way, shape, or form and I'm a big supporter of women's fighting. I loved watching that Ronda Rousey/Liz Carmouche fight. But those are actual women. Those are actual women. And as strong as Ronda Rousey looks, she's still looks to me like a pretty girl. She's a beautiful girl who happens to be strong. She's a girl! [Fallon Fox] is not a girl, OK? This is a [transgender] woman. It's a totally different specification." I'm not talking about a single sentence here. Despite whatever permissive or lassiez-faire attitudes he might hold, there is a constant drumbeat of "they're not really women." "Benign" transphobia is still transphobia, even if it's preferable to more aggressive forms. It's possible to be sober about physical differences that might exist between trans women and cis women without denying the former "full" womanhood. I'm not even necessarily disagreeing with the main point he's making, but I still find these comments to be transphobic, and I don't need to be a fan of his to hold an informed opinion here.
  - CyberDildonics 6y ago
    He doesn't need a "free pass". The context and what he was saying was crystal clear and has nothing to do with disrespecting someone who is transgender. This person was able to brutalize women because of attitudes like yours, where you are too afraid of using the incorrect pronoun even in the context of making a point about dangerous differences in physicality. This person beat a woman until her skull cracked and you are hung up on someone saying she has the physiology of a man. What do you think sets the acceptance of transgender people back more?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
blargmaster33 6y ago
Phobia is a medical condition! Accurately describing reality is not!
medee 6y ago
He was probably using the word "man" in reference to Fox's biological sex rather than gender identity.
dbbk 6y ago
I agree not very tactful. But also not enough to be 'cancelled' over.
JSavageOne 6y ago
Why does he have to abide by your personal ultra-conservative moral compass as to what is deemed "appropriate" or "not tactful enough"?

He explicitly referred to Fallon Fox, saying "You are a fucking man." Not a very tactful way to speak about a transgender woman. And yes, that's transphobic speech.

CyberDildonics 6y ago

He said that in the context of the physicality of someone who was fully grown, recently transitioned and was actually brutalizing women in MMA fights.

UncleMeat 6y ago
So? "you are a fucking man" isn't some dispassionate analysis of how to develop a rule system that works for both trans and cis athletes. Just because the context isn't inherently transphobic doesn't mean that he gets a free pass.
- RaleyField 6y ago
  That's why should verbally slap him around a bit, preventatively, just in case? Because as you admitted "the context isn't inherently transphobic".
  - UncleMeat 6y ago
    He took a topic that isn't inherently transphobic and added transphobia. He was rightly criticized for saying this.
    - RaleyField 6y ago
      You are choosing the most uncharitable reading which is not what he meant. How do I know that? Because, despite his meatheaddy appearances, he has consistently shown himself to not be transphobic, I watch his show. What he wanted to say is that her sex was biologically of male and that's why she has in this specific case unduly enormous advantage, to a degree that she is depriving others of fair chance at competing.
      - tcberry 6y ago
        Whether or not trans athletes should be allowed to compete in the same classes as their cis counterparts in MMA is a conversation we can have, but it is beside the point. Trans women are women. If someone makes plainly transphobic comments, and then refuses to apologize for them (or even doubles down), I'm not going to go and listen to hundreds of hours of their content to attempt to gain a more nuanced understanding of their attitude towards the trans community. I'm just going to think of that person as a transphobe.
        HeadsUpHigh 6y ago
        >Whether or not trans athletes should be allowed to compete in the same classes as their cis counterparts in MMA is a conversation we can have Thats the conversation he was having. You don't have to listen to hours of content, just take it from people here telling you that that was the context of the discussion. Or don't and simply don't comment on the matter. You are not obliged to have an opinion on everything.
        confusedpikachu 6y ago
        Thank you for writing this, I was freaking out here doubting my own common sense.
        socratesque 6y ago
        Respectfully, I understand you have good intent trying to stand up for a marginalized group, but you're being very ignorant. You can't just helicopter in, show no interest in understanding the situation, then cherry-pick something to spew off some unwarranted opinions about before helicoptering out again. While that singular sentence is absolutely insensitive, the context absolutely matters if you're going to judge the character of the person who said it.
        tcberry 6y ago
        And I appreciate that you are not trying to impute ill intent on me, although you may be underestimating my proximity to the transgender community personally. From my reading of the longer-form quotes – those that I have based my opinion on, I really don't think the context helps Rogan out all that much. "Look, [Fox is] huge! She's not just huge, she's got a fucking man's face. I mean, you can wear all the lipstick you want. You want to be a woman and you want to take female hormones, you want to get a boob job, that's all fine. I support your life to live, your right to live as a woman. Fight guys, yes. She has to fight guys. First of all, she's not really a she. She's a transgender, post-op person. The operation doesn't shave down your bone density. It doesn't change. You look at a man's hands and you look at a women's hands and they're built different. They're just thicker, they're stronger, your wrists are thicker, your elbows are thicker, your joints are thicker. Just the mechanical function of punching, a man can do it much harder than a woman can, period." "If you want to be a woman in the bedroom and you know you want to play house and all of that other shit and you feel like you have, your body is really a woman's body trapped inside a man's frame and so you got a operation, that's all good in the hood. But you can't fight chicks. Get the fuck out of here. You're out of your mind. You need to fight men, you know? Period. You need to fight men your size because you're a man. You're a man without a dick. I'm not trying to discriminate against women in any way, shape, or form and I'm a big supporter of women's fighting. I loved watching that Ronda Rousey/Liz Carmouche fight. But those are actual women. Those are actual women. And as strong as Ronda Rousey looks, she's still looks to me like a pretty girl. She's a beautiful girl who happens to be strong. She's a girl! [Fallon Fox] is not a girl, OK? This is a [transgender] woman. It's a totally different specification." I'm not talking about a single sentence here. Despite whatever permissive or lassiez-faire attitudes he might hold, there is a constant drumbeat of "they're not really women." "Benign" transphobia is still transphobia, even if it's preferable to more aggressive forms. It's possible to be sober about physical differences that might exist between trans women and cis women without denying the former "full" womanhood. I'm not even necessarily disagreeing with the main point he's making, but I still find these comments to be transphobic, and I don't need to be a fan of his to hold an informed opinion here.
- CyberDildonics 6y ago
  He doesn't need a "free pass". The context and what he was saying was crystal clear and has nothing to do with disrespecting someone who is transgender. This person was able to brutalize women because of attitudes like yours, where you are too afraid of using the incorrect pronoun even in the context of making a point about dangerous differences in physicality. This person beat a woman until her skull cracked and you are hung up on someone saying she has the physiology of a man. What do you think sets the acceptance of transgender people back more?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

blargmaster33 6y ago

Phobia is a medical condition! Accurately describing reality is not!

medee 6y ago

He was probably using the word "man" in reference to Fox's biological sex rather than gender identity.

dbbk 6y ago

I agree not very tactful. But also not enough to be 'cancelled' over.

JSavageOne 6y ago

Why does he have to abide by your personal ultra-conservative moral compass as to what is deemed "appropriate" or "not tactful enough"?