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NYTimes: "In a lawsuit filed on Tuesday, Hobby Lobby accused the auction house Christie’s of “deceitful and fraudulent conduct” in connection with an ancient t

NYTimes: "In a lawsuit filed on Tuesday, Hobby Lobby accused the auction house Christie’s of “deceitful and fraudulent conduct” in connection with an ancient tablet bearing a fragment of Gilgamesh. The suit claims “fraud and breach of express and implied warrant” in connection with the tablet, and seeks the return of what it paid for the tablet. In a statement on Tuesday, Christie’s said the lawsuit was related to an unidentified dealer’s admission of illegal activity “predating Christie’s involvement” with the tablet." Interesting how few are interested in the defense that Hobby Lobby was a victim.

micmil 6y ago
Has to do with Hobby Lobby's history of victimizing its workers and ALSO their history of doing illegal shit. https://www.npr.org/2018/06/28/623537440/hobby-lobbys-illegal-antiquities-shed-light-on-a-lost-looted-ancient-city-in-ira https://www.npr.org/2018/06/28/623537440/hobby-lobbys-illega... This is a two year old article about a different set of artifacts. They're hoarding shit that was stolen during wartime. Hobby Lobby are scumfuck pieces of shit and every last asshole involved in this needs to metaphorically burn.
boomboomsubban 6y ago
>Interesting how few are interested in the defense that Hobby Lobby was a victim. They weren't. With this tablet, maybe they never had any solid reason to suspect it had been looted. This wasn't the only artifact they bought, other items had no documentation detailing their history and they made purchases after being warned that items were likely illegal. It's doubtful they tried very hard to verify this tablets history given their record. There are other criminals involved, but Hobby Lobby was not a victim.
- 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 6y ago
  Kinda like when you buy a used car at auction, but it turns out it was stolen.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    Except the auction house is next door to a well known car thief's garage, the news is full of stories about a string of car thefts, and someone tells you those cars are probably stolen making it crime to buy.
    - ctdonath 6y ago
      Such is not the reputation of Christie's.
      - boomboomsubban 6y ago
        If they had only made this one sketchy purchase, maybe reputation would explain something. Or if there had been any record of them checking the claims made before purchasing this tablet. Or if Hobby Lobby hadn't publicly accepted that these actions were illegal.
        oh_sigh 6y ago
        Does Christie's frequently traffic in stolen goods? Is it possible that groups sometimes just defer to Christie's judgement when determining if something can legally be bought and sold or not?
        boomboomsubban 6y ago
        They probably deal in stolen goods somewhat frequently, but even if you could trust whether the sale was legal Hobby Lobby needed to ensure the import was legal.
        esyir 6y ago
        Would the onus then be on the amazon consumer to verify that their purchase wasn't counterfeit
        6y ago
- mcv 6y ago
  Why are such auctions even allowed? Or was this an illegal auction? It seems to me that any respectable auction house has an obligation to ensure that their service is not abused to fence stolen goods.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    It wasn't auctioned as the owner said the provenance would not pass public scrutiny, but instead listed for private sale. I have no clue how the legality of that works in Britain, but Christies exists to allow rich people to show off who is richer. I wouldn't trust their moral character.
luckydata 6y ago
gee, who would have thought that a super rare artifact well known for being in a specific museum in a specific country ravaged by war and all of a sudden showing up at auction would be stolen. They must have done a hell of a job with their due diligence.
- kapilvt 6y ago
  compared to the 99% of the rest of museums in dc, which are publicly funded, the Bible museum was private and needed to show return on investment which was covid interuppted, especially after it just opened and took over newseum real estate (capital prime).
  - ctdonath 6y ago
    The artifact in question was purchased LONG before COVID19 happened.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - randyrand 6y ago
    private companies don’t need to have a return on investment - it’s public companies that do!
- TigeriusKirk 6y ago
  I mean, one of the top auction houses in the world assured them it had a spotless provenance. HL is still culpable here, but Christie's absolutely is guilty too.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ctdonath 6y ago
Also interesting how NYTimes doesn't even mention Christie's until paragraph 20.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  Even if that lawsuit is successful against Christie's, Hobby Lobby's actions were still illegal. Who cares who is on the hook for the auction price?
triceratops 6y ago
It seems like they were warned in 2010.[1] They're a museum, surely they have experts on staff who can evaluate and verify what they're buying. 1. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/05/nyregion/hobby-lobby-artifacts-smuggle-iraq.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/05/nyregion/hobby-lobby-arti...
cwhiz 6y ago
Not going to find much sympathy for Hobby Lobby on Reddit or HN.
justin66 6y ago
> Interesting how few are interested in the defense that Hobby Lobby was a victim. This is just one page in the years-long story of Hobby Lobby's theft of thousands of antiquities. [1] Their attempt to pin one little piece of it on Christie's would, regardless of its legal merits, be met with boredom or skepticism even if the company weren't run by far-right religious fanatics. [1] https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/united-states-files-civil-action-forfeit-thousands-ancient-iraqi-artifacts-imported https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/united-states-files-civ...
rsynnott 6y ago
> Interesting how few are interested in the defense that Hobby Lobby was a victim. Is it particularly credible? Like, this is a notoriously dodgy field where it's really up to the purchaser to do due diligence.
woodrowbarlow 6y ago
>Interesting how few are interested in the defense that Hobby Lobby was a victim. hobby lobby is family owned and the family uses the company as a piggy bank for their museum of the bible. they have had multiple scandals involving counterfeits and artifacts of undocumented provenance over the last ten years. their negligence is beyond doubt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby_Lobby_smuggling_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby_Lobby_smuggling_scandal

micmil 6y ago

Has to do with Hobby Lobby's history of victimizing its workers and ALSO their history of doing illegal shit. https://www.npr.org/2018/06/28/623537440/hobby-lobbys-illegal-antiquities-shed-light-on-a-lost-looted-ancient-city-in-ira https://www.npr.org/2018/06/28/623537440/hobby-lobbys-illega... This is a two year old article about a different set of artifacts. They're hoarding shit that was stolen during wartime. Hobby Lobby are scumfuck pieces of shit and every last asshole involved in this needs to metaphorically burn.

boomboomsubban 6y ago

>Interesting how few are interested in the defense that Hobby Lobby was a victim. They weren't. With this tablet, maybe they never had any solid reason to suspect it had been looted. This wasn't the only artifact they bought, other items had no documentation detailing their history and they made purchases after being warned that items were likely illegal. It's doubtful they tried very hard to verify this tablets history given their record. There are other criminals involved, but Hobby Lobby was not a victim.

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 6y ago
Kinda like when you buy a used car at auction, but it turns out it was stolen.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  Except the auction house is next door to a well known car thief's garage, the news is full of stories about a string of car thefts, and someone tells you those cars are probably stolen making it crime to buy.
  - ctdonath 6y ago
    Such is not the reputation of Christie's.
    - boomboomsubban 6y ago
      If they had only made this one sketchy purchase, maybe reputation would explain something. Or if there had been any record of them checking the claims made before purchasing this tablet. Or if Hobby Lobby hadn't publicly accepted that these actions were illegal.
      - oh_sigh 6y ago
        Does Christie's frequently traffic in stolen goods? Is it possible that groups sometimes just defer to Christie's judgement when determining if something can legally be bought and sold or not?
        boomboomsubban 6y ago
        They probably deal in stolen goods somewhat frequently, but even if you could trust whether the sale was legal Hobby Lobby needed to ensure the import was legal.
        esyir 6y ago
        Would the onus then be on the amazon consumer to verify that their purchase wasn't counterfeit
        6y ago
mcv 6y ago
Why are such auctions even allowed? Or was this an illegal auction? It seems to me that any respectable auction house has an obligation to ensure that their service is not abused to fence stolen goods.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  It wasn't auctioned as the owner said the provenance would not pass public scrutiny, but instead listed for private sale. I have no clue how the legality of that works in Britain, but Christies exists to allow rich people to show off who is richer. I wouldn't trust their moral character.

luckydata 6y ago

gee, who would have thought that a super rare artifact well known for being in a specific museum in a specific country ravaged by war and all of a sudden showing up at auction would be stolen. They must have done a hell of a job with their due diligence.

kapilvt 6y ago
compared to the 99% of the rest of museums in dc, which are publicly funded, the Bible museum was private and needed to show return on investment which was covid interuppted, especially after it just opened and took over newseum real estate (capital prime).
- ctdonath 6y ago
  The artifact in question was purchased LONG before COVID19 happened.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- randyrand 6y ago
  private companies don’t need to have a return on investment - it’s public companies that do!
TigeriusKirk 6y ago
I mean, one of the top auction houses in the world assured them it had a spotless provenance. HL is still culpable here, but Christie's absolutely is guilty too.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ctdonath 6y ago

Also interesting how NYTimes doesn't even mention Christie's until paragraph 20.

boomboomsubban 6y ago
Even if that lawsuit is successful against Christie's, Hobby Lobby's actions were still illegal. Who cares who is on the hook for the auction price?

triceratops 6y ago

It seems like they were warned in 2010.[1] They're a museum, surely they have experts on staff who can evaluate and verify what they're buying. 1. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/05/nyregion/hobby-lobby-artifacts-smuggle-iraq.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/05/nyregion/hobby-lobby-arti...

cwhiz 6y ago

Not going to find much sympathy for Hobby Lobby on Reddit or HN.

justin66 6y ago

> Interesting how few are interested in the defense that Hobby Lobby was a victim. This is just one page in the years-long story of Hobby Lobby's theft of thousands of antiquities. [1] Their attempt to pin one little piece of it on Christie's would, regardless of its legal merits, be met with boredom or skepticism even if the company weren't run by far-right religious fanatics. [1] https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/united-states-files-civil-action-forfeit-thousands-ancient-iraqi-artifacts-imported https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/united-states-files-civ...

rsynnott 6y ago

> Interesting how few are interested in the defense that Hobby Lobby was a victim. Is it particularly credible? Like, this is a notoriously dodgy field where it's really up to the purchaser to do due diligence.

woodrowbarlow 6y ago

>Interesting how few are interested in the defense that Hobby Lobby was a victim. hobby lobby is family owned and the family uses the company as a piggy bank for their museum of the bible. they have had multiple scandals involving counterfeits and artifacts of undocumented provenance over the last ten years. their negligence is beyond doubt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby_Lobby_smuggling_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobby_Lobby_smuggling_scandal