6 ms·

> In my opinion, the whole discussion of transgender people in sports is a proxy war for their role in society as a whole. There are a lot of people out there

> In my opinion, the whole discussion of transgender people in sports is a proxy war for their role in society as a whole. There are a lot of people out there who care way more about sports than they do about the role of transgender people in society.

slg 6y ago
When you talk to most cisgender people, two of the biggest transgender issues they mention are sports and bathrooms. Meanwhile when transgender people are allowed to choose what sport to compete in or what bathroom to choose, there have been very few problems from them. It seems to me that lots of people just fundamentally believe that transgender people are wrong, gross, or whatever derogatory term you want to use and they work backwards from there looking for excuses before eventually landing on sports and bathrooms.
- free_rms 6y ago
  Have you ever been an athlete in a serious way? Honest question. If people who've competed or deeply cared about sports seem to all get hung up on this, maybe they're seeing something you're not? Your two issues are issues because, even without any prejudice, there are physical differences that we have to handle and it's not easy to figure out how to be fair to all parties. In the case we're talking about, for example, the trans women fractured a woman's skull. Broke her skull. Was the skull the problem here? Should it have been less breakable to match the rhetoric?
  - slg 6y ago
    Yes, I have been heavily involved in high level athletics. MMA is a violent sport. There are risks to anyone participating in it. If you are seriously worried about protecting athletes, there should be more widespread changes than just eliminating the handful of transgender athletes because I guarantee the majority of injuries occur in matches between two cisgender athletes.
  - abqio 6y ago
    It's important to make a distinction here. One that Rogan fails to make in his comments. Fox fractured her opponent's orbital. This is a facial fracture, not a skull fracture. Skull fractures are life threatening whereas facial fractures generally are not. There is a large discrepancy in the force required to cause a facial vs skull fracture as well.
- creato 6y ago
  What if the reality is that transgender people already have a reasonable set of rights in our society? If the front line of the battle is people being assholes about pronouns and transgender women competing in combat sports... maybe the war is won?
  - CathedralBorrow 6y ago
    I dont know, I'd say the front line of the battle is things like transgender persons having 9x the suicide rate of the general population. Is that a war that looks won to you?
- 2019-nCoV 6y ago
  Some women are uncomfortable sharing bathrooms with trans-women. Should we continue to dictate how these women should behave and feel?
  - XMPPwocky 6y ago
    We generally established that "I don't feel comfortable being around them" is not an excuse to discriminate back in the 60s. To clarify: would you argue that the existence of separate drinking fountains for white people and black people is justified because many white people feel uncomfortable drinking from the same fountain a black person has just used? If not, why not?
    - EdSharkey 6y ago
      Hm, I guess you could make an civil rights argument, but it's a tough sell when it comes to the ladies' room. There is a different take you may not be thinking of given that biological males' minds are naturally wretched and beyond contempt when it comes to everything dealing with sex. Some percentage of trans-women are trans primarily because that's a kink for them. It's their kink that has erupted onto their public person and now defines them. Perhaps that percentage is vanishingly small. But I say they must exist given that those women started with a male brain and given the disturbing preponderance of bimbo hypno erotic audio that's targeted primarily at men who want to get lost. See, there's simply no way to have this forbidden conversation because of the reactions. Oh well, fuck it, these are my observations and opinions. Into the breach! I gather that one source of women's discomfort is when they suspect it's a kink. Maybe it's a shared glance, or inappropriate attire or utterances made. It's not like biological women get to interrogate their trans sisters as to why they've come to the bathroom today. If they've come to enjoy the sexual thrill of a taboo space, then that's a violation. To a much lesser degree, men's bodies also stink worse than women do and make bigger shits that splash louder in the bowl - also very off-putting to women I'm sure. Not that trans-women can do anything about that, but it still factors. If you don't agree and all trans-women's hearts and motives are pure, well then God bless.
      - 6y ago

slg 6y ago

When you talk to most cisgender people, two of the biggest transgender issues they mention are sports and bathrooms. Meanwhile when transgender people are allowed to choose what sport to compete in or what bathroom to choose, there have been very few problems from them. It seems to me that lots of people just fundamentally believe that transgender people are wrong, gross, or whatever derogatory term you want to use and they work backwards from there looking for excuses before eventually landing on sports and bathrooms.

free_rms 6y ago
Have you ever been an athlete in a serious way? Honest question. If people who've competed or deeply cared about sports seem to all get hung up on this, maybe they're seeing something you're not? Your two issues are issues because, even without any prejudice, there are physical differences that we have to handle and it's not easy to figure out how to be fair to all parties. In the case we're talking about, for example, the trans women fractured a woman's skull. Broke her skull. Was the skull the problem here? Should it have been less breakable to match the rhetoric?
- slg 6y ago
  Yes, I have been heavily involved in high level athletics. MMA is a violent sport. There are risks to anyone participating in it. If you are seriously worried about protecting athletes, there should be more widespread changes than just eliminating the handful of transgender athletes because I guarantee the majority of injuries occur in matches between two cisgender athletes.
- abqio 6y ago
  It's important to make a distinction here. One that Rogan fails to make in his comments. Fox fractured her opponent's orbital. This is a facial fracture, not a skull fracture. Skull fractures are life threatening whereas facial fractures generally are not. There is a large discrepancy in the force required to cause a facial vs skull fracture as well.
creato 6y ago
What if the reality is that transgender people already have a reasonable set of rights in our society? If the front line of the battle is people being assholes about pronouns and transgender women competing in combat sports... maybe the war is won?
- CathedralBorrow 6y ago
  I dont know, I'd say the front line of the battle is things like transgender persons having 9x the suicide rate of the general population. Is that a war that looks won to you?
2019-nCoV 6y ago
Some women are uncomfortable sharing bathrooms with trans-women. Should we continue to dictate how these women should behave and feel?
- XMPPwocky 6y ago
  We generally established that "I don't feel comfortable being around them" is not an excuse to discriminate back in the 60s. To clarify: would you argue that the existence of separate drinking fountains for white people and black people is justified because many white people feel uncomfortable drinking from the same fountain a black person has just used? If not, why not?
  - EdSharkey 6y ago
    Hm, I guess you could make an civil rights argument, but it's a tough sell when it comes to the ladies' room. There is a different take you may not be thinking of given that biological males' minds are naturally wretched and beyond contempt when it comes to everything dealing with sex. Some percentage of trans-women are trans primarily because that's a kink for them. It's their kink that has erupted onto their public person and now defines them. Perhaps that percentage is vanishingly small. But I say they must exist given that those women started with a male brain and given the disturbing preponderance of bimbo hypno erotic audio that's targeted primarily at men who want to get lost. See, there's simply no way to have this forbidden conversation because of the reactions. Oh well, fuck it, these are my observations and opinions. Into the breach! I gather that one source of women's discomfort is when they suspect it's a kink. Maybe it's a shared glance, or inappropriate attire or utterances made. It's not like biological women get to interrogate their trans sisters as to why they've come to the bathroom today. If they've come to enjoy the sexual thrill of a taboo space, then that's a violation. To a much lesser degree, men's bodies also stink worse than women do and make bigger shits that splash louder in the bowl - also very off-putting to women I'm sure. Not that trans-women can do anything about that, but it still factors. If you don't agree and all trans-women's hearts and motives are pure, well then God bless.
    - 6y ago