9 ms·

In the US, that's generally prohibited (though I'm not sure whether it's technically illegal or just discouraged). Are the banks worried about being able to exc

In the US, that's generally prohibited (though I'm not sure whether it's technically illegal or just discouraged). Are the banks worried about being able to exchange older bills?

wcfields 6y ago
When exchanging money at a currency exchange kiosk in Koa Lanta Thailand they denied a few of my $20 due to almost unnoticeable rips, the kind that go no further than the outside border. They were quite particular on the "quality" of the bills, with another older bill being in too worse of condition for them to purchase.
- JoeAltmaier 6y ago
  Many countries are particular about currency being pristine. I remember in Austria it used to be forbidden even to fold their currency (old currency; not Euros). Had to be kept in a wallet; the wallet had to be large enough to hold the larger bills (different bills had different sizes!) https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/austria-and-old-banknotes-gm1180565130-330781975 https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/austria-and-old-banknotes-...
  - kosievdmerwe 6y ago
    Yup different bill sizes is a very simple security feature to prevent bleaching a bill and printing a higher denomination on it. This works because the higher the value the bigger the bill and forging the paper itself is hard.
    - mumblemumble 6y ago
      Seems like it would also be a nice feature for the visually impaired.
      - tialaramex 6y ago
        On modern colour notes one conventional way to help the visually impaired is to make the note have a distinctive colour theme. Most countries do this, and I believe the latest US notes finally have at least subtle coloured elements. [Gets out British "paper" money that hasn't been touched since the lockdown started months ago because who pays cash now?] As well as being different sizes, my £10 notes are orange, while the £20 is purple. The tenners have this big orange splodge that's actually a book with the initials JA (Jane Austen) and the twenty has a purple splodge whose meaning might be obvious to me if I liked art enough (relating to Turner, a famous British painter). Comparing sizes is hard to do quickly, whereas you can see instantly if the money you're trying to pay with or receiving in change is the wrong colour.
        RockIslandLine 6y ago
        "whereas you can see instantly if the money you're trying to pay with or receiving in change is the wrong colour." Now try that when you're blind.
        predakanga 6y ago
        The new polymer notes do include considerations for the vision-impaired. Check out the "tactile feature" section on the various banknotes at https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/current-banknotes https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/current-banknotes While we don't use tactile features in Australia, similar consultation went into the design of our banknotes: https://www.rba.gov.au/publications/bulletin/2015/mar/1.html https://www.rba.gov.au/publications/bulletin/2015/mar/1.html
        aplummer 6y ago
        In australia the new bills do have tactile dots to distinguish them for people living with blindness. About halfway along the bottom of the new 5 you can feel it.
        tialaramex 6y ago
  - perl4ever 6y ago
    Isn't the rule in the US that any bill that's more than 50% there can be exchanged for a new one? Obviously it has to be that way to avoid people ripping their money in two.
    - anticensor 6y ago
      Acceptable damage is just 33% actually.
- solotronics 6y ago
  Same here, when paying with USD in San Jose C.R. I had a food stand reject the first few $20s I tried because they were not in good enough condition. Interesting to see this in action.
  - thaumasiotes 6y ago
    ...how much does a meal from a food stand in Costa Rica cost?? A $20 seems like spectacular overkill.
    - chrisdhal 6y ago
      Costa Rica is not a "cheap" country by any means. Even in a "soda", which is about as cheap as you can get, a meal will be on the order of $7 per person. What the OP is probably saying is that he tried to pay with a $20 bill and would have got change, but the person wouldn't take it, not that the meal was $20. When I go I hardly ever exchange money, I just use USD and credit cards with no foreign transaction fees (AMEX mostly). I get change in colones and will use that as I can (entrance to beach, small transactions, etc.), but in general everybody takes USD. You just need to be aware of the fact that you'll probably get a bit screwed over in the exchange rate at smaller shops/individuals. It's helpful to know what the rate is and negotiate a bit. Most true restaurants/shops will use whatever the bank rate is that day because it'll be in a POS system, but the farther out you go from the big cities the more likely you'll hit mom and pop stores that randomly choose some rate. If paying by credit card, always make sure they do it in local currency. Source: Me, I have a house there and spend a lot of time there every year.
    - solotronics 6y ago
      I think it was between $2-6 usd but I literally just landed and was grabbing a bite to eat at a small place at maybe 1-2am.
- jld 6y ago
  Once in India I took a taxi to the train station. I paid the driver and went inside to catch my train. Ten minutes later while waiting in the station, the cab driver found me and made me replace a bill that he claimed I had given him that had a hole in it. He considered it worthless. Relatedly, it seems that stapling money is a pretty common way to organize bills there. I'm not sure how the two facts coincide.
  - mangamadaiyan 6y ago
    Stapling was indeed how bundles of currency notes were kept together in Indian banks back in the day. It went out of vogue sometime in the late '90s if memory serves. Edit: removed confusing reference to ATMs.
gpm 6y ago
I doubt it's prohibited, but any bills are equivalent legal tender for legal debts. If old bills became worth less than new bills people who lost lawsuits would start acquiring them at a discount to pay their debt, and they would drive up the price of the old bills until they equaled the price of new bills. (IANAL)
- colechristensen 6y ago
  legal tender in the us means all debts public or private, you have to incur the debt to have that protection. shop keepers aren’t forced to sell you a pack of gum for $100 , they can just say no sale. rules vary wildly by location. your bank or the fed aren’t ever going to play games with the value of a dollar.
ashtonkem 6y ago
This reminds me about the discussion of whether or not it’s legal for businesses to refuse pennies since they’re still “legal tender for all debts”. I believe the general consensus was that it’s legal for a business to refuse some types of currency based on denomination; which makes me think it would be likewise legal to refuse currency based on age. That of course doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to do so, only that it would be legal.
- goodcanadian 6y ago
  My understanding, which may well be wrong, is that pennies must be accepted in payment of debts. So, for example, if you eat at a restaurant where you eat first and then pay, a debt is created, and pennies must be accepted. However, in most situations, you pay first, so there is no debt, and the business can insist on whatever payment terms it wants. Incidentally, even in the case where you are paying later, if the payment terms are clear in advance, I suspect the business could insist on the preset terms.
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    if true, this would lead to some highly unreasonable situations. suppose you go to a fancy restaurant with your family and rack up a $1000 bill. if you pay in pennies, this would be over two tons in coins. does the restaurant really have to say "we do not accept pennies" upfront to not be obligated to accept your payment?
    - goodcanadian 6y ago
      Yes, well, that is my understanding of the issue. In the UK, there are limits on the amount of small change that must be accepted: https://www.royalmint.com/help/trm-faqs/legal-tender-amounts/ https://www.royalmint.com/help/trm-faqs/legal-tender-amounts... For the U.S., the best I could find is as follows: https://www.expertlaw.com/library/consumer-protection/it-legal-refuse-cash-payment https://www.expertlaw.com/library/consumer-protection/it-leg... This is (probably) consistent with my interpretation, the key issue being whether the restaurant bill is an "existing debt" or a simple transaction. Anyway, the fact that most people aren't assholes means this sort of thing rarely comes up. I also expect the restaurant would refuse to serve you if you showed up with two tons of pennies. :-)

In the US, that's generally prohibited (though I'm not sure whether it's technically illegal or just discouraged). Are the banks worried about being able to exchange older bills?

wcfields 6y ago

When exchanging money at a currency exchange kiosk in Koa Lanta Thailand they denied a few of my $20 due to almost unnoticeable rips, the kind that go no further than the outside border. They were quite particular on the "quality" of the bills, with another older bill being in too worse of condition for them to purchase.

JoeAltmaier 6y ago
Many countries are particular about currency being pristine. I remember in Austria it used to be forbidden even to fold their currency (old currency; not Euros). Had to be kept in a wallet; the wallet had to be large enough to hold the larger bills (different bills had different sizes!) https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/austria-and-old-banknotes-gm1180565130-330781975 https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/austria-and-old-banknotes-...
- kosievdmerwe 6y ago
  Yup different bill sizes is a very simple security feature to prevent bleaching a bill and printing a higher denomination on it. This works because the higher the value the bigger the bill and forging the paper itself is hard.
  - mumblemumble 6y ago
    Seems like it would also be a nice feature for the visually impaired.
    - tialaramex 6y ago
      On modern colour notes one conventional way to help the visually impaired is to make the note have a distinctive colour theme. Most countries do this, and I believe the latest US notes finally have at least subtle coloured elements. [Gets out British "paper" money that hasn't been touched since the lockdown started months ago because who pays cash now?] As well as being different sizes, my £10 notes are orange, while the £20 is purple. The tenners have this big orange splodge that's actually a book with the initials JA (Jane Austen) and the twenty has a purple splodge whose meaning might be obvious to me if I liked art enough (relating to Turner, a famous British painter). Comparing sizes is hard to do quickly, whereas you can see instantly if the money you're trying to pay with or receiving in change is the wrong colour.
      - RockIslandLine 6y ago
        "whereas you can see instantly if the money you're trying to pay with or receiving in change is the wrong colour." Now try that when you're blind.
        predakanga 6y ago
        The new polymer notes do include considerations for the vision-impaired. Check out the "tactile feature" section on the various banknotes at https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/current-banknotes https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/current-banknotes While we don't use tactile features in Australia, similar consultation went into the design of our banknotes: https://www.rba.gov.au/publications/bulletin/2015/mar/1.html https://www.rba.gov.au/publications/bulletin/2015/mar/1.html
        aplummer 6y ago
        In australia the new bills do have tactile dots to distinguish them for people living with blindness. About halfway along the bottom of the new 5 you can feel it.
        tialaramex 6y ago
- perl4ever 6y ago
  Isn't the rule in the US that any bill that's more than 50% there can be exchanged for a new one? Obviously it has to be that way to avoid people ripping their money in two.
  - anticensor 6y ago
    Acceptable damage is just 33% actually.
solotronics 6y ago
Same here, when paying with USD in San Jose C.R. I had a food stand reject the first few $20s I tried because they were not in good enough condition. Interesting to see this in action.
- thaumasiotes 6y ago
  ...how much does a meal from a food stand in Costa Rica cost?? A $20 seems like spectacular overkill.
  - chrisdhal 6y ago
    Costa Rica is not a "cheap" country by any means. Even in a "soda", which is about as cheap as you can get, a meal will be on the order of $7 per person. What the OP is probably saying is that he tried to pay with a $20 bill and would have got change, but the person wouldn't take it, not that the meal was $20. When I go I hardly ever exchange money, I just use USD and credit cards with no foreign transaction fees (AMEX mostly). I get change in colones and will use that as I can (entrance to beach, small transactions, etc.), but in general everybody takes USD. You just need to be aware of the fact that you'll probably get a bit screwed over in the exchange rate at smaller shops/individuals. It's helpful to know what the rate is and negotiate a bit. Most true restaurants/shops will use whatever the bank rate is that day because it'll be in a POS system, but the farther out you go from the big cities the more likely you'll hit mom and pop stores that randomly choose some rate. If paying by credit card, always make sure they do it in local currency. Source: Me, I have a house there and spend a lot of time there every year.
  - solotronics 6y ago
    I think it was between $2-6 usd but I literally just landed and was grabbing a bite to eat at a small place at maybe 1-2am.
jld 6y ago
Once in India I took a taxi to the train station. I paid the driver and went inside to catch my train. Ten minutes later while waiting in the station, the cab driver found me and made me replace a bill that he claimed I had given him that had a hole in it. He considered it worthless. Relatedly, it seems that stapling money is a pretty common way to organize bills there. I'm not sure how the two facts coincide.
- mangamadaiyan 6y ago
  Stapling was indeed how bundles of currency notes were kept together in Indian banks back in the day. It went out of vogue sometime in the late '90s if memory serves. Edit: removed confusing reference to ATMs.

gpm 6y ago

I doubt it's prohibited, but any bills are equivalent legal tender for legal debts. If old bills became worth less than new bills people who lost lawsuits would start acquiring them at a discount to pay their debt, and they would drive up the price of the old bills until they equaled the price of new bills. (IANAL)

colechristensen 6y ago
legal tender in the us means all debts public or private, you have to incur the debt to have that protection. shop keepers aren’t forced to sell you a pack of gum for $100 , they can just say no sale. rules vary wildly by location. your bank or the fed aren’t ever going to play games with the value of a dollar.

ashtonkem 6y ago

This reminds me about the discussion of whether or not it’s legal for businesses to refuse pennies since they’re still “legal tender for all debts”. I believe the general consensus was that it’s legal for a business to refuse some types of currency based on denomination; which makes me think it would be likewise legal to refuse currency based on age. That of course doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to do so, only that it would be legal.

goodcanadian 6y ago
My understanding, which may well be wrong, is that pennies must be accepted in payment of debts. So, for example, if you eat at a restaurant where you eat first and then pay, a debt is created, and pennies must be accepted. However, in most situations, you pay first, so there is no debt, and the business can insist on whatever payment terms it wants. Incidentally, even in the case where you are paying later, if the payment terms are clear in advance, I suspect the business could insist on the preset terms.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  if true, this would lead to some highly unreasonable situations. suppose you go to a fancy restaurant with your family and rack up a $1000 bill. if you pay in pennies, this would be over two tons in coins. does the restaurant really have to say "we do not accept pennies" upfront to not be obligated to accept your payment?
  - goodcanadian 6y ago
    Yes, well, that is my understanding of the issue. In the UK, there are limits on the amount of small change that must be accepted: https://www.royalmint.com/help/trm-faqs/legal-tender-amounts/ https://www.royalmint.com/help/trm-faqs/legal-tender-amounts... For the U.S., the best I could find is as follows: https://www.expertlaw.com/library/consumer-protection/it-legal-refuse-cash-payment https://www.expertlaw.com/library/consumer-protection/it-leg... This is (probably) consistent with my interpretation, the key issue being whether the restaurant bill is an "existing debt" or a simple transaction. Anyway, the fact that most people aren't assholes means this sort of thing rarely comes up. I also expect the restaurant would refuse to serve you if you showed up with two tons of pennies. :-)