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>"Whenever looted cultural property is found in this country, the United States government will do all it can to preserve heritage by returning such artifacts w

by slg 6y ago

>"Whenever looted cultural property is found in this country, the United States government will do all it can to preserve heritage by returning such artifacts where they belong" So what is the definition of "looted" here? Museums are full of things that fit various definitions of that word.

renewiltord 6y ago
Essentially, if it happened in modern times we have to account to modern governments for it. It's just a property of current real life. If local people put pressure on their government over it, the government has to put pressure on America over it, and America may want to preserve relations by making a gesture that's ultimately strategically zero cost to preserve a strategic relationship. No one with any power seriously wants the Kohinoor back so it's not going to go back. But having an artifact taken from your country during a war of invasion is going to create lots of pressure on you. It's just realpolitik.
hyperpape 6y ago
It's the subject of some discussion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_Marbles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_Marbles). I think an extremely conservative rule is that if it was taken after the original playstation was released, that's looting.
wl 6y ago
There are a few clear lines you can draw. Many institutions built their collections through a practice known as partage or division of finds. They would go to a government and offer their services as archeologists in exchange for a portion of their finds. While this practice is rare post-1970, there's not any serious debate about the legitimacy of cultural heritage exported under this regime. Purchases from the antiquities markets are also considered legitimate, assuming the export was originally done with the permission of the originating country. Where things really get questionable is when material culture was extracted by imperial power or as spoils of war. The Rosetta Stone is the most famous example. Also, you've got things like the Elgin Marbles that were taken through fraud and subterfuge a long time ago. These kinds of things are grandfathered in as a legal matter, but there's a moral argument for returning them anyway.
- randyrand 6y ago
  Does this line of thought apply to land as well?
rolph 6y ago
i think looting relates to desired material or financial gain vs historical or cultural revelation niether of them would be immune to criticism but i think archeology has at least a foot to stand on
- rtkwe 6y ago
  It gets tougher knowing how much archaeology during the colonial period was essentially just looting.

by slg 6y ago

renewiltord 6y ago

Essentially, if it happened in modern times we have to account to modern governments for it. It's just a property of current real life. If local people put pressure on their government over it, the government has to put pressure on America over it, and America may want to preserve relations by making a gesture that's ultimately strategically zero cost to preserve a strategic relationship. No one with any power seriously wants the Kohinoor back so it's not going to go back. But having an artifact taken from your country during a war of invasion is going to create lots of pressure on you. It's just realpolitik.

hyperpape 6y ago

It's the subject of some discussion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_Marbles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_Marbles). I think an extremely conservative rule is that if it was taken after the original playstation was released, that's looting.

wl 6y ago

There are a few clear lines you can draw. Many institutions built their collections through a practice known as partage or division of finds. They would go to a government and offer their services as archeologists in exchange for a portion of their finds. While this practice is rare post-1970, there's not any serious debate about the legitimacy of cultural heritage exported under this regime. Purchases from the antiquities markets are also considered legitimate, assuming the export was originally done with the permission of the originating country. Where things really get questionable is when material culture was extracted by imperial power or as spoils of war. The Rosetta Stone is the most famous example. Also, you've got things like the Elgin Marbles that were taken through fraud and subterfuge a long time ago. These kinds of things are grandfathered in as a legal matter, but there's a moral argument for returning them anyway.

randyrand 6y ago
Does this line of thought apply to land as well?

rolph 6y ago

i think looting relates to desired material or financial gain vs historical or cultural revelation niether of them would be immune to criticism but i think archeology has at least a foot to stand on

rtkwe 6y ago
It gets tougher knowing how much archaeology during the colonial period was essentially just looting.