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>>> Just get Petzold to write one of these for Windows 10 and I'll be happy If you are tuned into MS Build Live right now, you can get a feel for where not jus

>>> Just get Petzold to write one of these for Windows 10 and I'll be happy If you are tuned into MS Build Live right now, you can get a feel for where not just Windows, but the entire ecosystem is headed. Low code developer studios. Heavy cloud integration. HTTP / API REPLs. Build actions instantly targeting a mind boggling array of devices and platforms. I've seen it across environments. Goal is to eliminate the possibility of introducing human error into complex systems. As well as onboard recent hires quickly. Era of developing software as visual metaphor is upon us. Possessing actual bare metal skill will become more rare (and counter-intuitively more valued) than ever ;)

m0zg 6y ago
> Era of developing software as visual metaphor is upon us. I've been hearing this for about 25 years. Yet none of the software I actually use is developed that way.
- shawn-butler 6y ago
  Yes, but now we have DeepLearning or something... I'm sure it will be different this time.
  - m0zg 6y ago
    I make my living with it. It's pretty much the opposite of "code free", and its problem domain is entirely orthogonal to that of "traiditional" programming in that you can't do what deep learning systems do using the traditional means, at all. Try recognizing a hotdog reliably with just some for loops and if statements. Code-wise, frameworks themselves are millions of lines of code, and then there are tens of thousands of lines of your own, often extremely gnarly stuff on top of that. And I don't expect anything that can "write itself" in my, or my children's lifetime.
    - PeterStuer 6y ago
      I think the poster you are replying forgot to add the '/s'
      - m0zg 6y ago
        Adding /s is almost always pointless. People who understand sarcasm don't need it, and everyone else doesn't know what /s means.
TeMPOraL 6y ago
> Goal is to eliminate the possibility of introducing human error into complex systems. Low-code and API integrations are unfortunately as much error-prone, and make debugging harder. I mean, it's always good when you can avoid playing with raw pointers, but there's a large valley between that and drag&drop flowsheeting, and in that valley, there lie the most productive of tools. Honestly, I'm worried where this is all headed. When I see "heavy cloud integration, HTTP/API REPLs", I don't read it as "making it easier to develop powerful and robust software", I read it as "software is now a graph of relationships between third party business entities", something I desperately do not want to happen.
- markus_zhang 6y ago
  Yeah exactly, read it as "Purchase our service and layoff your devs/dbas". Maybe actually it IS good for the business, but for ordinary workforce, meh. Also meh for people who do enjoy programming.
markus_zhang 6y ago
Low code + Heavy cloud is good for MS and business but not sure if it's good for programmers...

m0zg 6y ago

> Era of developing software as visual metaphor is upon us. I've been hearing this for about 25 years. Yet none of the software I actually use is developed that way.

shawn-butler 6y ago
Yes, but now we have DeepLearning or something... I'm sure it will be different this time.
- m0zg 6y ago
  I make my living with it. It's pretty much the opposite of "code free", and its problem domain is entirely orthogonal to that of "traiditional" programming in that you can't do what deep learning systems do using the traditional means, at all. Try recognizing a hotdog reliably with just some for loops and if statements. Code-wise, frameworks themselves are millions of lines of code, and then there are tens of thousands of lines of your own, often extremely gnarly stuff on top of that. And I don't expect anything that can "write itself" in my, or my children's lifetime.
  - PeterStuer 6y ago
    I think the poster you are replying forgot to add the '/s'
    - m0zg 6y ago
      Adding /s is almost always pointless. People who understand sarcasm don't need it, and everyone else doesn't know what /s means.

TeMPOraL 6y ago

> Goal is to eliminate the possibility of introducing human error into complex systems. Low-code and API integrations are unfortunately as much error-prone, and make debugging harder. I mean, it's always good when you can avoid playing with raw pointers, but there's a large valley between that and drag&drop flowsheeting, and in that valley, there lie the most productive of tools. Honestly, I'm worried where this is all headed. When I see "heavy cloud integration, HTTP/API REPLs", I don't read it as "making it easier to develop powerful and robust software", I read it as "software is now a graph of relationships between third party business entities", something I desperately do not want to happen.

markus_zhang 6y ago
Yeah exactly, read it as "Purchase our service and layoff your devs/dbas". Maybe actually it IS good for the business, but for ordinary workforce, meh. Also meh for people who do enjoy programming.

markus_zhang 6y ago

Low code + Heavy cloud is good for MS and business but not sure if it's good for programmers...