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It's interesting how people here are happy to criticise "chyna" when facebook is really the same thing with a corporate logo and a backdoor. The difference is c

It's interesting how people here are happy to criticise "chyna" when facebook is really the same thing with a corporate logo and a backdoor. The difference is china has a frontdoor. Facebook also runs in your phone with spyware.

alharith 6y ago
Let's just say you are correct, framing and all. So the two options in your scenario are collecting data without consent. The difference then becomes feeding information to a US corporation, which benefits 25,000+ US citizens through direct employment, benefits the countless stock portfolios that hold facebook stock, and benefits the US tech business as a whole, or a brutalist authoritarian regime, hostile to US interests that murders it's own citizens. Both are wrong and need correction, but I'll take facebook's "spyware" any day.
ancarda 6y ago
This thread seems mostly negative towards Facebook (good - fuck em') but your comment seems to suggest you think there's some bias here. Are people on HN being too positive about Facebook?
- foobar_ 6y ago
  Maybe its just me but I have noticed a sharp rise in anti-china rhetoric here. For example there is a dead comment below which cites America is not a totalitarian regime that hurts its citizens, which is not true because you have Native Americans and racism in America which affects plenty of minorities. As a programmer one of our tasks is to build abstractions and simplifications. To me it looks like facebook has a near monopoly on a social network that collects and sells data and China has one big social network, that has everyone on it. From a strictly interface perspective both are the same. Both have backdoors. What I find troubling is that people seem to accept Facebook as a hero when you could as well make the case the china is more heroic for its people. It was china the pulled a majority of people out of poverty not U.S.A which has a lot of homeless people. Capitalism with monopolies that sleep with the government is not that different from chinese style capitalism, which on paper has to serve the people. The biggest problem with capitalism is the "legal person" definition and limited liability exception. Offshoring is also a shit idea clearly. Talking about china is relevant for hackers because probably china might be more sincere about open source than microsoft with its profit motive. Anti-china rhetoric will just ruin such discussions rather than allow people to get balanced perspectives.
  - ancarda 6y ago
    America isn't a totalitarian regime though. Evidence of racism isn't relevant for that definition - it's a label that applies based on government structure.
    - foobar_ 6y ago
      Totalitarian to who ... that's the question. America is fairly totalitarian to Mexicans, Native Indians to a very huge degree and to black people on a minor degree. In the same vein China is totalitarian to people who are not Han-Chinese. A majority of the Chinese live perfectly reasonable and modern lives.
      - chillacy 6y ago
        You don't get a "free political speech" pass even if you identify/pass as Han Chinese. Certainly you don't get treated as badly, but the restrictions on speech are still real.
      - ivalm 6y ago
        Totalitarianism is defined as “ a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state.” It has nothing to do with racism or reasonableness of life. US is not totalitarian (despite having many negative qualities). China is totalitarian.
        foobar_ 6y ago
        According to the Nazis they were a National Socialists, they did not see themselves as totalitarian. I suppose it is an illusion of reference. People inside U.S.A think it is a free nation ... whereas those on the outside can see its totalitarian tendencies more clearly. To take the case of France, what is it doing in Guiana ? France may be liberal to its people but it suppresses people in Guiana in a totalitarian way.

alharith 6y ago

Let's just say you are correct, framing and all. So the two options in your scenario are collecting data without consent. The difference then becomes feeding information to a US corporation, which benefits 25,000+ US citizens through direct employment, benefits the countless stock portfolios that hold facebook stock, and benefits the US tech business as a whole, or a brutalist authoritarian regime, hostile to US interests that murders it's own citizens. Both are wrong and need correction, but I'll take facebook's "spyware" any day.

ancarda 6y ago

This thread seems mostly negative towards Facebook (good - fuck em') but your comment seems to suggest you think there's some bias here. Are people on HN being too positive about Facebook?

foobar_ 6y ago
Maybe its just me but I have noticed a sharp rise in anti-china rhetoric here. For example there is a dead comment below which cites America is not a totalitarian regime that hurts its citizens, which is not true because you have Native Americans and racism in America which affects plenty of minorities. As a programmer one of our tasks is to build abstractions and simplifications. To me it looks like facebook has a near monopoly on a social network that collects and sells data and China has one big social network, that has everyone on it. From a strictly interface perspective both are the same. Both have backdoors. What I find troubling is that people seem to accept Facebook as a hero when you could as well make the case the china is more heroic for its people. It was china the pulled a majority of people out of poverty not U.S.A which has a lot of homeless people. Capitalism with monopolies that sleep with the government is not that different from chinese style capitalism, which on paper has to serve the people. The biggest problem with capitalism is the "legal person" definition and limited liability exception. Offshoring is also a shit idea clearly. Talking about china is relevant for hackers because probably china might be more sincere about open source than microsoft with its profit motive. Anti-china rhetoric will just ruin such discussions rather than allow people to get balanced perspectives.
- ancarda 6y ago
  America isn't a totalitarian regime though. Evidence of racism isn't relevant for that definition - it's a label that applies based on government structure.
  - foobar_ 6y ago
    Totalitarian to who ... that's the question. America is fairly totalitarian to Mexicans, Native Indians to a very huge degree and to black people on a minor degree. In the same vein China is totalitarian to people who are not Han-Chinese. A majority of the Chinese live perfectly reasonable and modern lives.
    - chillacy 6y ago
      You don't get a "free political speech" pass even if you identify/pass as Han Chinese. Certainly you don't get treated as badly, but the restrictions on speech are still real.
    - ivalm 6y ago
      Totalitarianism is defined as “ a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state.” It has nothing to do with racism or reasonableness of life. US is not totalitarian (despite having many negative qualities). China is totalitarian.
      - foobar_ 6y ago
        According to the Nazis they were a National Socialists, they did not see themselves as totalitarian. I suppose it is an illusion of reference. People inside U.S.A think it is a free nation ... whereas those on the outside can see its totalitarian tendencies more clearly. To take the case of France, what is it doing in Guiana ? France may be liberal to its people but it suppresses people in Guiana in a totalitarian way.