4 ms·

I can hardly tell the difference between my razer stealth linux touchpad and my workprovided macbook. Even based on the feedback, it seems that most people are

I can hardly tell the difference between my razer stealth linux touchpad and my workprovided macbook. Even based on the feedback, it seems that most people are okay with their touchpad experience and are more interested in advanced features like multitouch. Having this said, for myself this is a tough sell. I'm concerned that I would donate and I won't be able to tell the difference between this and some placebo drivers.

horsawlarway 6y ago
I'm in exactly the same spot with a (reasonably old 2017 model) Dell XPS. Wayland with libinput has been a JOY to use compared to basically anything I've used in linux before. I tried running an X based DE about 2 years ago on this machine and actually went back to running it in a VM in windows because the touchpad felt so shoddy. No problems at all with the current setup. Can barely tell the different between my work Mac and the XPS. From my view, this whole issue is resolved.
- michaelmrose 6y ago
  What is the difference between wayland + libinput and X + libinput precisely?
  - horsawlarway 6y ago
    Maybe it's just time and continued development on libinput, but the differences I found are: Two fingered scroll works by default Sensitivity/Acceleration curves basically match OSX out of the box Right click on two finger tap is easily enabled and feels good Support for multi finger swipe (3/4 fingers) easily enabled and feels good Palm detection is MILES better (I have huge hands and this is a serious problem) --- Each of those was a serious issue 3 years ago trying to get things working through xinput (although again, I migrated to wayland about 1.5 years ago and have never looked back so maybe it's better now) X and xinput give folks a TON of options, and in certain situations that's great. But most of the time (all of the time in my experience) it led to bad defaults and consistently broken settings after upgrades. I genuinely enjoy the zero configuration approach Wayland has taken here with libinput. I'm on a mac for work, and while I really disagree with Apple's philosophy, I can't argue that they provide a simple and fantastic touchpad experience. I get that by default on my current setup and it feels nice. I genuinely enjoy most aspects of system management, but trial and error editing of magic numbers in an xorg conf file for my touchpad just sucked.
- CoolGuySteve 6y ago
  Yeah I don't have a problem with either my Asus Zenbook or my HP Envy. Reading through the comments it sounds like the real problem is Thinkpad trackpads suck for whatever reason and this is somehow getting extrapolated to "Linux trackpads suck".
WalterGR 6y ago
I can hardly tell the difference between my razer stealth linux touchpad and my workprovided macbook. How much of the surface of the Linux touchpad is clickable? I.e. how much of it depresses when you press on it, vs. the MacBook? I’ve never seen a non-Apple touchpad that didn’t have a big dead zone in the back (closest to the display) 1/4 to 1/3 of the surface.
- viseztrance 6y ago
  Well, I'm using tap to click which is what I prefer. On the macbook pro I'm using clicks because tapping doesn't work as well as reliably, for example tap and drag. Later edit - I tried comparing the clickable area, and indeed, the upper region is not clickable on my razer (TIL). I realized this only just now, because this not how I usually use touchpads.
- abrowne 6y ago
  Do you click with your "aiming" finger? I usually have tap-to-click turned on and do tap that way, but on any touchpad, MacBooks primarily until recently, I always click with my thumb on the bottom quarter, where older touchpads had a separate button. Is this only because I started on those old-style touchpads?
  - abhorrence 6y ago
    I started on trackpads with the separate buttons, but now click with my index finger. I’ve found that the longer I’ve used the MacBook touch pads (and especially since they went fully non-mechanical) the more I dislike other touch pads.
- ubercow13 6y ago
  That's a physical limitation because the touchpad hinges from the back. No new touchpad driver is going to fix that.
  - duskwuff 6y ago
    And the Apple touchpad doesn't hinge at all! The "click" reaction you get when you press it is simulated by a set of force sensors and an actuator that vibrates the trackpad to simulate a click.
tams 6y ago
What environment and config produces that result for you? I can definitely tell the difference under KDE, libinput and good old X.

horsawlarway 6y ago

I'm in exactly the same spot with a (reasonably old 2017 model) Dell XPS. Wayland with libinput has been a JOY to use compared to basically anything I've used in linux before. I tried running an X based DE about 2 years ago on this machine and actually went back to running it in a VM in windows because the touchpad felt so shoddy. No problems at all with the current setup. Can barely tell the different between my work Mac and the XPS. From my view, this whole issue is resolved.

michaelmrose 6y ago
What is the difference between wayland + libinput and X + libinput precisely?
- horsawlarway 6y ago
  Maybe it's just time and continued development on libinput, but the differences I found are: Two fingered scroll works by default Sensitivity/Acceleration curves basically match OSX out of the box Right click on two finger tap is easily enabled and feels good Support for multi finger swipe (3/4 fingers) easily enabled and feels good Palm detection is MILES better (I have huge hands and this is a serious problem) --- Each of those was a serious issue 3 years ago trying to get things working through xinput (although again, I migrated to wayland about 1.5 years ago and have never looked back so maybe it's better now) X and xinput give folks a TON of options, and in certain situations that's great. But most of the time (all of the time in my experience) it led to bad defaults and consistently broken settings after upgrades. I genuinely enjoy the zero configuration approach Wayland has taken here with libinput. I'm on a mac for work, and while I really disagree with Apple's philosophy, I can't argue that they provide a simple and fantastic touchpad experience. I get that by default on my current setup and it feels nice. I genuinely enjoy most aspects of system management, but trial and error editing of magic numbers in an xorg conf file for my touchpad just sucked.
CoolGuySteve 6y ago
Yeah I don't have a problem with either my Asus Zenbook or my HP Envy. Reading through the comments it sounds like the real problem is Thinkpad trackpads suck for whatever reason and this is somehow getting extrapolated to "Linux trackpads suck".

WalterGR 6y ago

I can hardly tell the difference between my razer stealth linux touchpad and my workprovided macbook. How much of the surface of the Linux touchpad is clickable? I.e. how much of it depresses when you press on it, vs. the MacBook? I’ve never seen a non-Apple touchpad that didn’t have a big dead zone in the back (closest to the display) 1/4 to 1/3 of the surface.

viseztrance 6y ago
Well, I'm using tap to click which is what I prefer. On the macbook pro I'm using clicks because tapping doesn't work as well as reliably, for example tap and drag. Later edit - I tried comparing the clickable area, and indeed, the upper region is not clickable on my razer (TIL). I realized this only just now, because this not how I usually use touchpads.
abrowne 6y ago
Do you click with your "aiming" finger? I usually have tap-to-click turned on and do tap that way, but on any touchpad, MacBooks primarily until recently, I always click with my thumb on the bottom quarter, where older touchpads had a separate button. Is this only because I started on those old-style touchpads?
- abhorrence 6y ago
  I started on trackpads with the separate buttons, but now click with my index finger. I’ve found that the longer I’ve used the MacBook touch pads (and especially since they went fully non-mechanical) the more I dislike other touch pads.
ubercow13 6y ago
That's a physical limitation because the touchpad hinges from the back. No new touchpad driver is going to fix that.
- duskwuff 6y ago
  And the Apple touchpad doesn't hinge at all! The "click" reaction you get when you press it is simulated by a set of force sensors and an actuator that vibrates the trackpad to simulate a click.

tams 6y ago

What environment and config produces that result for you? I can definitely tell the difference under KDE, libinput and good old X.