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Many things can be learnt from simulating real world systems. We should make games to simulate reduction of co2 emissions plus make them fun to play. Cost of
by acd 6y ago
Many things can be learnt from simulating real world systems. We should make games to simulate reduction of co2 emissions plus make them fun to play.
Cost of making misstakes in games is low you can play again experiment and learn new behaviors with lower cost.
- wodow 6y agoThere's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fate_of_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fate_of_the_World from 2011, which is still rated "Mostly Postive" on Steam. It is very hard! As it should be?
- dmux 6y ago>Many things can be learnt from simulating real world systems. This reminded me of the book "Business Engineering with Object Technology" by David A Taylor. In one chapter he goes about identifying "objects" in a manufacturing business and goes down to the level of modeling employees and the machines that they'd be using on the production line. I've never found the need to model things that granular, but it's definitely an interesting concept of "reifying" _everything_.
- DonHopkins 6y agoGotta make it addictive + fun, so: Cow Clicker + Fart Simulator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_Clicker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_Clicker https://store.steampowered.com/app/719080/Fart_Simulator_2018/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/719080/Fart_Simulator_201... https://www.forbes.com/sites/samlemonick/2017/09/29/scientists-underestimated-how-bad-cow-farts-are/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/samlemonick/2017/09/29/scientis...
- lucasmullens 6y agoFactorio sort of does this. Aliens attack you based on pollution, and you have the choice to use coal vs green energy.
- SteveNuts 6y agoThe thing with factorio is the green power generators still have pollution associated with it, so I always just elect to use the more powerful coal generators and beef up my defenses.
- sbierwagen 6y agoTo be clear: Solar panels in Factorio produce no pollution, but metal smelting produces huge amounts of it, and you have to smelt to do basically anything in the game.
- unixhero 6y agoWhich is ... Accurate!
- aurelwu 6y agoDirect reduction of iron ore with Hydrogen can eliminate most of the process emissions of smelting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_reduced_iron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_reduced_iron . Production of secondary steel (recycled steel) using electric arc furnaces also barely has process emissions.
- gpm 6y agoI've never heard of this before, so correct me if I'm wrong, but that wikipedia article makes it look like 2Fe2O3 + 6H2 -> 2Fe + 6H2O. Commercially hydrogen is produced via CH4 + 2H2O -> CO2 + 4H2. Combined you're just converting methane into CO2 and H2O as if you burnt it? Is it actually the case that this ends up needing less hydrocarbons than other routes for some reason?
- sbierwagen 6y agoIf carbon emissions were heavily taxed, it would be cheaper to generate the hydrogen from water electrolysis.
- philwelch 6y agoThe widely panned SimHealth attempted this with the US healthcare system during the Clinton health care reform controversy.
- ergl 6y agoThe reviews for that game were amazing just because of the lack of self-awareness: [Keith Schlesinger] criticized the "not well developed" victory conditions, reporting that he got a high score in one game by "sacrific[ing] nearly all of the big and small business firms in the country to achieve the win! What kind of a victory is that?" Schlesinger found that adopting an extreme libertarian ideology including ending Medicare and many other government services resulted in almost hands-off victory although "the entire private insurance industry goes bankrupt in the first three months. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SimHealth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SimHealth
- alexilliamson 6y agoThe Gathering Storm expansion in Civilization 6 adds c02 to your factory emissions, which has to be managed to avert climate catastrophes. Would highly recommend!
- sbierwagen 6y agoVarious Civilization games have had global warming since Civ 1: https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Global_warming https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Global_warming
- alexilliamson 6y agoOh nice! This is my first civilization game so I didn't realize. AFAIK it only comes into play in civ6 with expansions.
- billfruit 6y agoThere was even a strange case when I think it was civ 5 which removed the global warming mechanic.
- bluGill 6y agoProblem is all such games are subject to their assumptions. Thus whatever you come up with, either it confirms my bias or I can attack it because of some obscure thing you didn't account for. There are enough obscure things for me to keep adding that you will never win (except by confirming my bias at which time someone else will jump in).
- jacques_chester 6y agoThey are subject to their assumptions, but they also make those assumptions much more concrete. That makes them easier to version, critique, test and improve. The alternative is unstated assumptions minus the benefits, so what's to lose?
- vharuck 6y agoOr a third outcome: nobody realizes the game has a lesson. Instead, they revel in the antithesis of your message. See: Monopoly
- mikepurvis 6y ago> Problem is all such games are subject to their assumptions. Including SimCity and Cities Skylines. See: "...through a survey of gameplay features and online discussions, I argue that CBGs present a biased urban imaginary whose underlying rules and assumptions often run contrary to contemporary best practices in urban planning and policy. Working within these constraints however, players wield considerable power to sculpt their own unique urban visions, which come to embody the ideologies of both player and developer." In particular around automobile-centricity: "The illusion that additional capacity solves all transit ills is compounded by the fact that no CBG to date has accurately portrayed the resultant demand for parking spaces. In C: S, vehicles may park parallel along streets and in surface parking lots adjacent to buildings. These surface parking lots are unrealistically small, however, with 10+ story buildings often having no more than a half-dozen (and often no) parking spaces. While it isn’t uncommon for dense urban environments to feature subsurface parking garages, it takes a substantial leap of faith to assume that every building in the game is equipped in this way. So what if a CBG dared to adopt a more realistic parking model? Steve Librande, a lead designer on SimCity 2013, is said to have remarked, “so much of the screen would be dedicated to asphalt that it’d be too boring to play”" https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00221341.2015.1070366 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00221341.2015.10...
- jacques_chester 6y agoThere are many simulations around. En-ROADS is built by folks I admire: https://www.climateinteractive.org/tools/en-roads/ https://www.climateinteractive.org/tools/en-roads/ More generally, Systems Dynamics folks call these kinds of simulation "management flight simulators". The underlying simulation approach is distinct from agent-base modelling but still useful for constructing mental models.
- jalla 6y agoIf only people had learnt from Pandemic 2...
- CalRobert 6y agoThe largely forgotten but very enjoyable SimEarth lets you do just that!
- kyuudou 6y agoI was going to make note of this. The terraforming simulations of trying to make Mars and Venus livable are also interesting from this perspective. Mars is actually achievable by creating the greenhouse effect with CO2 generators, but I could never get anywhere with Venus. I'm still baffled this hasn't been re-issued in a modern form or at least copied by someone else or inspiring another game. Would love to make my trichordates sentient again!
- Zardoz84 6y agoomg. looks that I'm not the only guy that make sentient trichotdates.
- Igelau 6y agoI think you mean "sapient"!
- karatestomp 6y agoThere are quite a few great older games that don't have modern counterparts. Several of the Sim series of games are among them. I haven't seen a good replacement for Shadow President yet—there was one similar game called Superpower in the early 2000s that was better in some ways, but a lot worse in others, and even that's practically ancient these days. Hunter Hunted. Return Fire. Dominus. Of course (see above comments about modern project bloat) the art team for a modern version would probably exceed the count of everyone involved in the original, there'd probably be 3-5x as many developers even if the gameplay and physics and such weren't more complicated, and so on. The credits roll would take up more disk space than the original game did.
- ssully 6y agoOxygen Not Included might be close to what you are looking for. It's based in space, but its basically a systems-based game for managing a space colony. Includes managing your air (how much oxygen, handling co2), waste, water, spread of disease, and more.
- heelix 6y agoMan I love that game. It has a very clever automation/sensor system as well. You can rig doors to open if they sense water, heat, gasses, pressure, and a bunch of other criteria. Wiring in NOT/AND/OR gates. Timers.