7 ms·

Microsoft is bringing Linux GUI apps to Windows 10

74 points by ArmandGrillet 6y ago

rvz 6y ago
Fantastic news for WSL2 users who want a consistent way for testing Linux GUI applications on one platform without installing another distro or dual booting on their PC. Interesting enough, it includes GPU acceleration as well. Sounds like I can easily do all the Linux development I need to do on Windows 10 then, even possibly compiling the Linux kernel, knowing that it is well supported by Microsoft.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
  It is already possible to build the Linux kernel on WSL1
- loa_in_ 6y ago
  I already use Linux to rescue broken Windows installation (dozens of times), and Windows to rescue broken Linux installation (once) on the same machine. I appreciate Microsoft making it easier. Maybe easier is not the correct word, rather faster.
- desktopninja 6y ago
  The headline brought back fond memories of Lindows. It also had a really catchy song "Lindows Rocks" Suddenly the Year of Desktop Linux is here :)
- mekster 6y ago
  You could do the same with VMware for 10 years. I wonder what WSL2 brings to the table apart from maybe performance optimization and a little more integration to Windows than a third party app. Does it have any feature that VMware doesn't have?
genpfault 6y ago
...somehow. Did I miss an answer to the 'how?' question in the article somewhere? EDIT: Ah, El Reg[1] has my back: > Not in 20H1 but announced at this year's Build is the arrival of GUI support for Linux apps running in WSL2 thanks to Wayland and RDP painting the app on the Windows desktop [1]: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/05/19/wsl2_gui/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/05/19/wsl2_gui/
avolcano 6y ago
I'm personally quite excited about this. Been experimenting with WSL2 on my desktop lately, trying to figure out if I could port over my existing dev workflow from Mac. One stumbling block I had was that I've been writing servers in Kotlin lately, using IntellIJ, which is more or less the only game in town for writing Kotlin. I wanted to run my app (and tests) in WSL, so I could closer-match my production Linux environments (and continue using all the bash scripts and ad-hoc CLI calls I had in my project), but if I wanted to run in IntelliJ on Windows, this would be tricky: IntelliJ doesn't support the WSL2 virtual file system, so I couldn't leave my files "in Linux," which means I'd have to run my server using the mounted C:\ drive in WSL, which is much slower. More importantly, I'd have to duplicate all my dependencies between Windows and Linux just to get the IDE working correctly, and couldn't e.g. use the IntellIJ test runner to run tests under Linux. So... I just grabbed an X Server[1], installed XFCE in Ubuntu, installed IntelliJ, and then just started running it through that. And it works flawlessly as an app! I use the floating window mode in X410 so it just looks like any other Windows app (I mean, it's already a Java desktop app, so it's not exactly platform-native to begin with). The only issues I had were clearly just with the X Server integration: sometimes, when I had other windows open over IntellIJ, tooltips would still start showing up in IntelliJ from whatever was underneath my mouse, sometimes right click menus just mysteriously stopped working until I restarted the server, etc. The latter was particularly annoying since you can't restart the server without restarting the app, but was infrequent enough I was okay living with it. That said: I am hopeful that this new Windows integration will perform better and with fewer bugs than the X server implementations out there right now. The fact that it will support GPU integration makes me think it must be doing more than just a traditional X server - in fact, doesn't that require Wayland? Curious how this is implemented under the hood. [1] I'm using https://x410.dev/ https://x410.dev/ but there's a decent amount of options. This one is paid, but at least is on sale right now.
4gotunameagain 6y ago
It is great and it will certainly be very useful to a lot of people, but I cannot help it but to remain sceptical about the whole "reborn Microsoft" public image. Microsoft is a monopoly (or very close to one) which has been doing whatever is needed to thwart competition. My concern is centered around this slowing down the progress and development of the desktop linux experience in general
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
  The desktop linux experience has been piss poor for well over a decade now. I've been using it off and on since Ubuntu Breezy. It's still so bad that I've removed it from all of my machines except for my home server. WSL is now the only way that I actively interact with Linux. None of this thwarts Linux at all- quite the contrary. This enables more users and possibly allows more people to develop and improve Linux who do not wish to dedicate a full machine to the task.
  - ubercow13 6y ago
    >desktop linux experience has been piss poor for well over a decade now You can say the same about Windows with a pretty straight face, too (OK maybe not quite 10 years - Windows 8 was 2012)
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
      I had no quarrel with Windows 8, you could click one tile to get the the desktop. That was the depth of my headache. Not really a big deal. Small cost for being able to play and run anything I've ever wanted without issue.
      - ubercow13 6y ago
        So really it just comes down to application compatibility. Of course that's always been a big issue, and I still run a Windows VM for various things.
merrvk 6y ago
How long before Microsoft buys Linus?
- g-garron 6y ago
  You mean Linus Torvalds? Or Linux, Linux can’t be bought
- kbrwn 6y ago
  hires* I'd say it would take a cold day in hell before Linus would work at M$ but since 2016 it seems anything is possible.
- desktopninja 6y ago
  Linus has worked for MS many times. This article came to mind when I read your comment: https://www.wired.com/2005/02/microsoft-5/
godzillabrennus 6y ago
Extend, embrace, extinguish. Is this the embrace phase?
- chadlavi 6y ago
  embrace, extend, extinguish. And this is the second phase, extend. They've embraced it with the "linux subkernel" or whatever, now they're extending it by making it harder to distinguish from windows because the apps can run in the same place
chadlavi 6y ago
embrace: check extend: in progress ...
tracker1 6y ago
Been on windows desktop again since early march for a couple work projects... have to admit, WSL2 + Docker experience has been far better than I expected. Seeing support for GUI apps makes me very happy, though the only app I really use IN wsl is via the VS Code remote extension. I know a lot of people using various IDE software will be happy to see this involvement though... not sure I'd get much use out of the GUI side other than maybe testing apps. At this point, very happy with the new terminal with wsl2 as my default open... I actually feel productive on Windows for a change and get to mostly ignore all the windows-isms for most projects.

74 points by ArmandGrillet 6y ago

rvz 6y ago

Fantastic news for WSL2 users who want a consistent way for testing Linux GUI applications on one platform without installing another distro or dual booting on their PC. Interesting enough, it includes GPU acceleration as well. Sounds like I can easily do all the Linux development I need to do on Windows 10 then, even possibly compiling the Linux kernel, knowing that it is well supported by Microsoft.

2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
It is already possible to build the Linux kernel on WSL1
loa_in_ 6y ago
I already use Linux to rescue broken Windows installation (dozens of times), and Windows to rescue broken Linux installation (once) on the same machine. I appreciate Microsoft making it easier. Maybe easier is not the correct word, rather faster.
desktopninja 6y ago
The headline brought back fond memories of Lindows. It also had a really catchy song "Lindows Rocks" Suddenly the Year of Desktop Linux is here :)
mekster 6y ago
You could do the same with VMware for 10 years. I wonder what WSL2 brings to the table apart from maybe performance optimization and a little more integration to Windows than a third party app. Does it have any feature that VMware doesn't have?

genpfault 6y ago

...somehow. Did I miss an answer to the 'how?' question in the article somewhere? EDIT: Ah, El Reg[1] has my back: > Not in 20H1 but announced at this year's Build is the arrival of GUI support for Linux apps running in WSL2 thanks to Wayland and RDP painting the app on the Windows desktop [1]: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/05/19/wsl2_gui/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/05/19/wsl2_gui/

avolcano 6y ago

I'm personally quite excited about this. Been experimenting with WSL2 on my desktop lately, trying to figure out if I could port over my existing dev workflow from Mac. One stumbling block I had was that I've been writing servers in Kotlin lately, using IntellIJ, which is more or less the only game in town for writing Kotlin. I wanted to run my app (and tests) in WSL, so I could closer-match my production Linux environments (and continue using all the bash scripts and ad-hoc CLI calls I had in my project), but if I wanted to run in IntelliJ on Windows, this would be tricky: IntelliJ doesn't support the WSL2 virtual file system, so I couldn't leave my files "in Linux," which means I'd have to run my server using the mounted C:\ drive in WSL, which is much slower. More importantly, I'd have to duplicate all my dependencies between Windows and Linux just to get the IDE working correctly, and couldn't e.g. use the IntellIJ test runner to run tests under Linux. So... I just grabbed an X Server[1], installed XFCE in Ubuntu, installed IntelliJ, and then just started running it through that. And it works flawlessly as an app! I use the floating window mode in X410 so it just looks like any other Windows app (I mean, it's already a Java desktop app, so it's not exactly platform-native to begin with). The only issues I had were clearly just with the X Server integration: sometimes, when I had other windows open over IntellIJ, tooltips would still start showing up in IntelliJ from whatever was underneath my mouse, sometimes right click menus just mysteriously stopped working until I restarted the server, etc. The latter was particularly annoying since you can't restart the server without restarting the app, but was infrequent enough I was okay living with it. That said: I am hopeful that this new Windows integration will perform better and with fewer bugs than the X server implementations out there right now. The fact that it will support GPU integration makes me think it must be doing more than just a traditional X server - in fact, doesn't that require Wayland? Curious how this is implemented under the hood. [1] I'm using https://x410.dev/ https://x410.dev/ but there's a decent amount of options. This one is paid, but at least is on sale right now.

4gotunameagain 6y ago

It is great and it will certainly be very useful to a lot of people, but I cannot help it but to remain sceptical about the whole "reborn Microsoft" public image. Microsoft is a monopoly (or very close to one) which has been doing whatever is needed to thwart competition. My concern is centered around this slowing down the progress and development of the desktop linux experience in general

2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
The desktop linux experience has been piss poor for well over a decade now. I've been using it off and on since Ubuntu Breezy. It's still so bad that I've removed it from all of my machines except for my home server. WSL is now the only way that I actively interact with Linux. None of this thwarts Linux at all- quite the contrary. This enables more users and possibly allows more people to develop and improve Linux who do not wish to dedicate a full machine to the task.
- ubercow13 6y ago
  >desktop linux experience has been piss poor for well over a decade now You can say the same about Windows with a pretty straight face, too (OK maybe not quite 10 years - Windows 8 was 2012)
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 6y ago
    I had no quarrel with Windows 8, you could click one tile to get the the desktop. That was the depth of my headache. Not really a big deal. Small cost for being able to play and run anything I've ever wanted without issue.
    - ubercow13 6y ago
      So really it just comes down to application compatibility. Of course that's always been a big issue, and I still run a Windows VM for various things.

merrvk 6y ago

How long before Microsoft buys Linus?

g-garron 6y ago
You mean Linus Torvalds? Or Linux, Linux can’t be bought
kbrwn 6y ago
hires* I'd say it would take a cold day in hell before Linus would work at M$ but since 2016 it seems anything is possible.
desktopninja 6y ago
Linus has worked for MS many times. This article came to mind when I read your comment: https://www.wired.com/2005/02/microsoft-5/

godzillabrennus 6y ago

Extend, embrace, extinguish. Is this the embrace phase?

chadlavi 6y ago
embrace, extend, extinguish. And this is the second phase, extend. They've embraced it with the "linux subkernel" or whatever, now they're extending it by making it harder to distinguish from windows because the apps can run in the same place

chadlavi 6y ago

embrace: check extend: in progress ...

tracker1 6y ago

Been on windows desktop again since early march for a couple work projects... have to admit, WSL2 + Docker experience has been far better than I expected. Seeing support for GUI apps makes me very happy, though the only app I really use IN wsl is via the VS Code remote extension. I know a lot of people using various IDE software will be happy to see this involvement though... not sure I'd get much use out of the GUI side other than maybe testing apps. At this point, very happy with the new terminal with wsl2 as my default open... I actually feel productive on Windows for a change and get to mostly ignore all the windows-isms for most projects.