6 ms·

>A policeman can easily say "I was worried for my life!" when shooting an unarmed person but a civilians can't say the same thing if they shoot a cop that invad

by Hamuko 6y ago

>A policeman can easily say "I was worried for my life!" when shooting an unarmed person but a civilians can't say the same thing if they shoot a cop that invaded their house, or even another civilian. Isn't that what stand-your-ground law enable people to do?

azernik 6y ago
See this very case! Taylor's boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, fired at police officers breaking into his girlfriend's house; he was arrested and charged with attempted murder, and is currently under house arrest. The police union, of course, is screaming bloody murder that this "threat to the men and women of law enforcement" is even in house arrest, rather than in a facility. (https://twitter.com/KYFOP614/status/1243557106487361536 https://twitter.com/KYFOP614/status/1243557106487361536) We'll see what happens after the case works its way through court, but he's already losing several months of wages and the stress of a court battle, which is more than most cops have to go through after shooting someone.
- gamblor956 6y ago
  Mr. Walker should get off...eventually. Unfortunately, while it appears the law is on his side based on the facts currently known (Kentucky is a castle doctrine and SYG state), these doctrines are affirmative defenses that must be argued in court. Under most state criminal procedure codes, Mr. Walker can be held until trial (unless freed on bail, or placed under house arrest). Note that placing someone under house arrest in a conservative state like Kentucky is the judge's way of saying that he expects the defendant to prevail in court and thus won't subject them to the indignities of the prison system, but can't simply release them without bail or restriction due to the nature of the charges.
gamblor956 6y ago
Yes, if a cop invades your home without following proper procedure (i.e., by announcing "this is the police" or by wearing police uniform), in a state with castle doctrine you can shoot trespassers without attempting to flee. Both the castle doctrine and stand-your-ground doctrines let people shoot attackers without attempting to flee. One of the big differences is that castle doctrine only applies in your home (but is a very strong defense that is generally acceptable in almost every state), while stand-your-grand would apply outside your home, but is more limited--not every state allows for a stand-your-ground defense. For example, California allows for the castle doctrine but not stand-your-ground, so you would have to reasonably attempt to flee before engaging in deadly force.
Broken_Hippo 6y ago
That's what they are supposed to do - but these aren't things that are applied fairly. Not so long ago, there was a woman arrested for firing a warning shot at her abusive spouse or boyfriend. She was jailed. Unsurprisingly, she was African-American. Women, in general, can't use this defense as often and minorities rarely can. And few folks can use this against cops - you'd need someone to come to your aid and prove the cop did something wrong.
- Throwawayaerlei 6y ago
  You left out the most important fact of the Marissa Alexander case: she left the room in which the confrontation was occurring, went to the attached garage, retrieved her handgun from her car, and then went back. There's also a question of whether it was a "warning shot" as she claims, or just bad marksmanship in trying to kill her husband, the facts strongly support the latter, and that's generally something for a jury to decide. Warning shots are also very strongly frowned upon for reasons that should be obvious. So Florida's stand your ground law provision had absolutely nothing to do with the case. Plus there's one now pretty old study out there that shows in Florida that blacks successfully used the stand your ground provision of Florida law as part of a self-defense affirmative defense more often than whites. The claim that women are disfavored in claiming self-defense is literally something I've never heard of.
  - valuearb 6y ago
    So stand your ground doesn’t allow you to get your gun to defend yourself against an abusive spouse?
    - effingwewt 6y ago
      I imagine it would be seen as having left (given up your ground) and then returned thereby entering the other person's ground. I'm pretty sure even without stand yiur ground if you are in an altercation, leave, and return, it's seen as you are now the aggressor. I've seen this happen with fights without weapons involved (both in real life and shows like Live PD), and the charges are always serious if they left and came back, most especially with a weapon.

by Hamuko 6y ago

azernik 6y ago

See this very case! Taylor's boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, fired at police officers breaking into his girlfriend's house; he was arrested and charged with attempted murder, and is currently under house arrest. The police union, of course, is screaming bloody murder that this "threat to the men and women of law enforcement" is even in house arrest, rather than in a facility. (https://twitter.com/KYFOP614/status/1243557106487361536 https://twitter.com/KYFOP614/status/1243557106487361536) We'll see what happens after the case works its way through court, but he's already losing several months of wages and the stress of a court battle, which is more than most cops have to go through after shooting someone.

gamblor956 6y ago
Mr. Walker should get off...eventually. Unfortunately, while it appears the law is on his side based on the facts currently known (Kentucky is a castle doctrine and SYG state), these doctrines are affirmative defenses that must be argued in court. Under most state criminal procedure codes, Mr. Walker can be held until trial (unless freed on bail, or placed under house arrest). Note that placing someone under house arrest in a conservative state like Kentucky is the judge's way of saying that he expects the defendant to prevail in court and thus won't subject them to the indignities of the prison system, but can't simply release them without bail or restriction due to the nature of the charges.

gamblor956 6y ago

Yes, if a cop invades your home without following proper procedure (i.e., by announcing "this is the police" or by wearing police uniform), in a state with castle doctrine you can shoot trespassers without attempting to flee. Both the castle doctrine and stand-your-ground doctrines let people shoot attackers without attempting to flee. One of the big differences is that castle doctrine only applies in your home (but is a very strong defense that is generally acceptable in almost every state), while stand-your-grand would apply outside your home, but is more limited--not every state allows for a stand-your-ground defense. For example, California allows for the castle doctrine but not stand-your-ground, so you would have to reasonably attempt to flee before engaging in deadly force.

Broken_Hippo 6y ago

That's what they are supposed to do - but these aren't things that are applied fairly. Not so long ago, there was a woman arrested for firing a warning shot at her abusive spouse or boyfriend. She was jailed. Unsurprisingly, she was African-American. Women, in general, can't use this defense as often and minorities rarely can. And few folks can use this against cops - you'd need someone to come to your aid and prove the cop did something wrong.

Throwawayaerlei 6y ago
You left out the most important fact of the Marissa Alexander case: she left the room in which the confrontation was occurring, went to the attached garage, retrieved her handgun from her car, and then went back. There's also a question of whether it was a "warning shot" as she claims, or just bad marksmanship in trying to kill her husband, the facts strongly support the latter, and that's generally something for a jury to decide. Warning shots are also very strongly frowned upon for reasons that should be obvious. So Florida's stand your ground law provision had absolutely nothing to do with the case. Plus there's one now pretty old study out there that shows in Florida that blacks successfully used the stand your ground provision of Florida law as part of a self-defense affirmative defense more often than whites. The claim that women are disfavored in claiming self-defense is literally something I've never heard of.
- valuearb 6y ago
  So stand your ground doesn’t allow you to get your gun to defend yourself against an abusive spouse?
  - effingwewt 6y ago
    I imagine it would be seen as having left (given up your ground) and then returned thereby entering the other person's ground. I'm pretty sure even without stand yiur ground if you are in an altercation, leave, and return, it's seen as you are now the aggressor. I've seen this happen with fights without weapons involved (both in real life and shows like Live PD), and the charges are always serious if they left and came back, most especially with a weapon.