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> Taylor's death has ignited a firestorm across the nation in recent weeks, as prominent activists and politicians questioned why an unarmed black woman had bee

• giancarlostoro 6y ago
  Or you know, when they don't shoot / arrest people of a different pigmentation who do have guns and go for their guns: https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2015/08/02/10/Confederate-Flag-Rally-3-AP.jpg https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/imag... Saw that one making the rounds again, and I gotta say, you don't grab a gun unless you're about to shoot period. Edit: Fix typo: sad -> saw
  • azinman2 6y ago
    What’s the context of this photo?
    • mikeyouse 6y ago
      A few months after the Charleston massacre, several white nationalist groups held a confederate flag rally at Stone Mountain, a monument to the confederacy and the birthplace of the second KKK. Police were there to keep the rally and protestors separate and as tensions flared, dude reached for his gun: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tensions-flare-as-confederate-flag-supporter-reaches-for-gun-when-confronted-by-protests-in-pictures-10433094.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tensions-f...
• ftvy 6y ago
  A private citizen enjoys the right to self-defense, and in cases where killing the assailant is the only means to end the fight and preserve one's life, that is generally held as justifiable. Law enforcement officers enjoy the same right. There are internal investigations every time a police officer discharges their weapon. They don't enjoy immunity against any crime they commit. If there is no evidence of a crime, then there cannot be any criminal charges.
  • armenarmen 6y ago
    Honest question, how many cops have been charged for manslaughter/murder while on the job in the last 10 years?
    • ftvy 6y ago
      How would I know that off the top of my head? Do you expect such a local event to always be national news? Edit: https://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+many+police+officers+were+charged+with+manslaughter https://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+many+police+officers+were+charged+...
      • armenarmen 6y ago
        True not fair to ask off top of your head. I did find one: https://abcnews.go.com/US/houston-police-officer-gerald-goines-charged-counts-murder/story?id=65165276 https://abcnews.go.com/US/houston-police-officer-gerald-goin...
        • jakeogh 6y ago
          Meta: It's a solvable problem that something like Pacer isnt open. Running stats on the law and how it's applied could be easier.
      • anigbrowl 6y ago
        Why aren't there easily available statistics for this well-defined social function? I can get medical malpractice statistics very easily, why not law enforcement malpractice?
• KorematsuFred 6y ago
  I have always found that it is helpful to put up sign outside your house that you are a gun owner or perhaps even an NRA sticker (even if you abhor guns and NRA). As a person of color living in an area which had too many people who would deliberately pickup fights with me (especially related to parking) all that ended once I put up a big NRA logo on my car. I do not even own a gun.
  • whymauri 6y ago
    And if you dislike the NRA, you can always rep an SRA sticker instead. Although it's probably less recognizable and the "S" in SRA may bring some issues. I'm not affiliated with either organization.
    • dredmorbius 6y ago
      Self Referential Acronym?
  • VBprogrammer 6y ago
    Is this a human example of Bayesian mimicry? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batesian_mimicry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batesian_mimicry
• teraflop 6y ago
  Don't forget the doctrine of "qualified immunity". Police officers/departments carrying out their official duties can only be sued for violations of "clearly established" law. Seems maybe reasonable in theory, but in practice means that even if they do something obviously, blatantly illegal, they can avoid consequences if they can argue that the specific set of factual circumstances had not previously been judged to be a Constitutional violation. Here's one case that recently came to my attention: https://www.theusconstitution.org/litigation/micah-jessop-brittan-ashjian-v-city-of-fresno-et-al/ https://www.theusconstitution.org/litigation/micah-jessop-br... The plaintiffs allege that, while executing a search warrant, Fresno police officers personally stole several hundred thousand dollars worth of coins. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals decided that even if this theft happened, the officers could not be sued: > We recognize that the allegation of any theft by police officers—most certainly the theft of over $225,000—is deeply disturbing. Whether that conduct violates the Fourth Amendment’s prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures, however, would not “be ‘clear to a reasonable officer.’” [...] Because Appellants did not have a clearly established Fourth or Fourteenth Amendment right to be free from the theft of property seized pursuant to a warrant, the City Officers are entitled to qualified immunity. Yesterday the Supreme Court declined to consider the plaintiffs' appeal, which means they're SOL.
  • ftvy 6y ago
    That was an interesting read. Thank you for the link. Do you happen to know off hand if any investigation was actually pursued to track down the missing coins or money?
  • TaylorAlexander 6y ago
    Wow. Yeah IDK who thought police being able to murder and steal without punishment was a good idea, but it seems antithetical to the notion of a free society.
  • gamblor956 6y ago
    That is the right decision...the officers should not be sued for the alleged theft because they were seizing property pursuant to a warrant. The police department or city should be sued for it, if the warrant were unlawfully obtainedor if items seized during the search allegedly went missing. And they were sued. The ruling you are complaining about was specifically about removing the officers as individual defendants from the civil case. The city of Fresno is still a defendant in the case. It is simply the individual officers that are not. On another note--the difference in values in that case is due to how the police recorded the coins into evidence. When physical money is taken into evidence, they record the stated value of the money (i.e., a quarter is recorded as a quarter...even if it is a rare quarter worth $1million on the collectibles market, since it's not the police's job to get an appraisal for items taken into evidence). The plaintiffs valued the collectibles at their alleged market values.
• sneak 6y ago
  It's worse than that, even. :( https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ex-georgia-deputy-acquitted-after-flash-bang-grenade-hurts-toddler-n479361 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ex-georgia-deputy-acqui...
• sparkie 6y ago
  > The whole police immunity for murder and violence needs to stop. The punishment for crimes committed by police officers should be harsher than the punishment for the same crimes committed by regular citizens. And the law should be actually enforced, not conveniently ignored. It would probably only take a few high profile cases where they make an example of the officer to change the attitude in the police force. Right now, some police, who are meant to protect, are trigger happy because they know that their colleagues "have the backs," and they will be let off the hook with a suspension in the worst case. They don't analyze a situation carefully enough before reaching for their guns. There are shortcuts taken far too often by police, such as entering properties without warrants, arresting people who have not committed or are even suspected of committing crimes. The police think they're a different tier of citizen, and well, they are, because they can violate citizen's rights with almost immunity. It is understandable that mistakes can be made, but it this is precisely why they need to be made an example of, to prevent the mistakes recurring.
  • anigbrowl 6y ago
    It's funny how this perfectly reasonable argument is always downvoted.
    • sparkie 6y ago
      I'm pretty sure there's some kind of bot which automatically downvotes every comment I make shortly after posting. I'm also rate limited to 5 comments per 3 hours due to wrongthink. Has been that way for a couple of years.
    • jakeogh 6y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Protection_Clause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Protection_Clause It's a slippery slope, and that's not always a logical fallicy: https://www.aristotl.io/?s=slippery#slippery-slope https://www.aristotl.io/?s=slippery#slippery-slope If you want to do that, it would need to apply to everyone.
      • sparkie 6y ago
• Hamuko 6y ago
  >A policeman can easily say "I was worried for my life!" when shooting an unarmed person but a civilians can't say the same thing if they shoot a cop that invaded their house, or even another civilian. Isn't that what stand-your-ground law enable people to do?
  • azernik 6y ago
    See this very case! Taylor's boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, fired at police officers breaking into his girlfriend's house; he was arrested and charged with attempted murder, and is currently under house arrest. The police union, of course, is screaming bloody murder that this "threat to the men and women of law enforcement" is even in house arrest, rather than in a facility. (https://twitter.com/KYFOP614/status/1243557106487361536 https://twitter.com/KYFOP614/status/1243557106487361536) We'll see what happens after the case works its way through court, but he's already losing several months of wages and the stress of a court battle, which is more than most cops have to go through after shooting someone.
    • gamblor956 6y ago
      Mr. Walker should get off...eventually. Unfortunately, while it appears the law is on his side based on the facts currently known (Kentucky is a castle doctrine and SYG state), these doctrines are affirmative defenses that must be argued in court. Under most state criminal procedure codes, Mr. Walker can be held until trial (unless freed on bail, or placed under house arrest). Note that placing someone under house arrest in a conservative state like Kentucky is the judge's way of saying that he expects the defendant to prevail in court and thus won't subject them to the indignities of the prison system, but can't simply release them without bail or restriction due to the nature of the charges.
  • gamblor956 6y ago
    Yes, if a cop invades your home without following proper procedure (i.e., by announcing "this is the police" or by wearing police uniform), in a state with castle doctrine you can shoot trespassers without attempting to flee. Both the castle doctrine and stand-your-ground doctrines let people shoot attackers without attempting to flee. One of the big differences is that castle doctrine only applies in your home (but is a very strong defense that is generally acceptable in almost every state), while stand-your-grand would apply outside your home, but is more limited--not every state allows for a stand-your-ground defense. For example, California allows for the castle doctrine but not stand-your-ground, so you would have to reasonably attempt to flee before engaging in deadly force.
• 38rurhrjd 6y ago
  Sounds like a good idea if you don't mind partnering every officer with a paralegal to ensure it's okay to discharge their weapon. Otherwise, no sane person would be a police officer.
  • ric2b 6y ago
    Or they could know the law themselves. Weird how for everyone else ignorance of the law isn't an excuse, only for the ones enforcing it.
• deleted 6y ago
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